You're very welcome. I understand how hard these things can be to talk about. I really must stress that you are _not_ a bad person. As to whether you felt arousal in real life as a result of the dream - in your first post in this thread, you said 'thinking back to the dream it seemed like myself in the dream was getting ready to masturbate maybe that's why i felt arousal?' which I think is the case. If you did indeed feel real arousal (and it's entirely possible that you didn't and it was simply another case of the groinal response) then I'm certain it would have been a case of your body naturally responding to the thought of your dream self getting ready to masturbate - and had nothing to do with the website in your dream at all. It's pretty clear to me from your posts that you weren't aroused by the website - you sound absolutely disgusted by it, not turned on in the slightest!
One thing I want to point out about intrusive thoughts is that the vast vast majority of people, if not everybody, gets them sometimes - the difference is in how people react to them. Generally most people are simply able to recognise them as random and meaningless and discard them, whereas others fixate on them and become really distressed. Now, I'm absolutely not saying that it's your fault for fixating on them - it's not your fault. Everybody's brain works differently after all. But by that, I also don't mean that you won't be able to learn to ignore intrusive thoughts, because you can.
So by saying that I wanted to show you that you haven't done anything to cause the intrusive thoughts themselves. Your dwelling on things that have happened in the past may have influenced the content of the intrusive thoughts and your reactions to the intrusive thoughts, I don't know (I will point out again that it's absolutely not your fault and you are not to blame for the problems you're having). But what I do know is that dwelling on the past definitely isn't helping you - even if only because it's adding to your distress and unhappiness.
Please don't feel forced into talking about what happened when you were younger if you don't want to. But also, please try to stop feeling guilty about anything you might have done. I would be willing to bet that almost everybody who is an adult now can look back on at least one thing they did as a child and think "how could I do something like that?" - and the reason is because they were children. Children simply do not have the same understanding of the concepts of 'right' and 'wrong' as adults do, and as a result they do sometimes behave in ways that for an adult would not be appropriate. It does not make them 'bad' or anything like that, and they should not feel guilty for it. As I mentioned before, Dr. Robert has written a lot on this subject, and if you haven't already, I would really recommend having a look through the archives on his site and reading the answers he has given to people who have written in over guilt about childhood sexual experimentation. I also want to point out that you shouldn't feel guilty for looking at porn at all. Lots of people watch it, and I'd be willing to bet that 99% of people who have an internet connection have looked it up at some point. There's nothing wrong with being curious about sex.
There are different types of OCD, as much as the obsession with cleanliness is probably the most well known one. Some people with OCD do obsess over intrusive sexual thoughts (the subjects my own OCD is concerned with varies, but this type is almost certainly the most distressing I've ever experienced). There is also a form of OCD with no physical compulsions/rituals, 'Pure-O'. I will point out though that I of course can't say for certain that you're OCD. If you'd like to read a bit about it, you could have a look at the wiki pages for it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocd and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purely_Obsessional_OCD
I'm sorry for what you've gone through in the past. It's a shame that your psychologist had to leave. I know I keep saying it, but I really do think that it would be worth finding a good psychologist to speak to - you shouldn't have to deal with something as bad as this by yourself. Your doctor would probably be able to refer you to somebody. If you feel like it would be difficult to speak to a psychologist, could you try writing down what you want to say? You could even show them what you've written here. I know it's much easier said than done, but you really don't have to feel embarrassed or worried about telling a psychologist anything - it's a bit of a cliche but they really have heard it all before, and they shouldn't judge you or think negatively of you or anything like that.
As for the problem with your nephew, again, try not to worry. Again, it's very clear to me from reading your post that you didn't actually get aroused from hugging your nephew. Again I think it's just another case of you getting so anxious and worked up about it that you end up convincing yourself that it might have happened. You really haven't done anything wrong. (And I definitely relate to how you feel when you say you worried about talking about that. When I was the same age as you, my own obsession was around this horrible worry that I was a paedophile [now of course I know that I'm not], and talking about it was terrifying - what if people got the wrong idea or thought badly of me?)
That you're trying to avoid falling asleep is worrying. Depriving yourself of sleep isn't good for you, and it can make you feel worse physically which in turn can make psychological problems harder to deal with. But in turn I also don't want you to stress yourself out even more. You could perhaps try thinking to yourself that even if you do have that dream again, it doesn't matter - it means nothing about you, and you didn't really get aroused by it. Also, you may find it easier to not try to make yourself fall asleep - rather than laying in bed in the dark trying to sleep with nothing to distract you, try putting on a good tv show or film or something to watch and just letting yourself drift off if you do - that way the tv might help distract you from the thoughts and make you more relaxed? I don't know. It's really difficult to know what to suggest in that situation, because I'm worried about the sleeping stressing you out more - but you also can't go without sleep forever.
Don't worry too much about your grammar, your post wasn't hard to read at all. I really hope that I've been of some help, and that you feel better soon.
OH god. I'll say sorry now for how long this post is, I just kept typing and trailing off on certain things - though maybe some needed to be said even if it were off-topic
I know but I thought maybe if my dream self was getting ready to do that because of the website, though I have to remember I'm not my dream self.. it's just very worrying and can't shake it off my mind keeps going back to that. I seem to have the intrusive thoughts about THAT sort of stuff recently, why? I mean it can be about ANYTHING though my mind turns whatever I look at into something sexual and then some sort of image appears - though I also have ones about self harm sometimes or flashes of images of me falling down and getting hurt basically just about things you don't want/shouldnt think about.. I mean one image popped up in my mind yesterday about earth worms? what the hell? it honestly can be about anything, i just don't understand it. how did I become like this?
how can I learn to ignore them when they just.. come? I try to keep my mind off it them and then when I realise I haven't been taking notice I goes back to it.. as soon as I get some disturbing thought I try to stop it by thinking just that 'stop' please stop sometimes I just close my eyes really tight maybe pinch my neck or something.. it's not like I'm wanting to think about it - it just happens. but what if I am wanting to think about it?
once an image comes into my mind I must instantly focus on if I feel something and then I do - and if I read something on the internet about this or that, I 'feel' something because I probably am focusing on that part of my body maybe without realising - but how do I know if it's not 'real'? that it's actually want I'm like.. since the dream it feels like I constantly have some feeling - do you think it may be because I'm worrying about it, focusing? I feel so down.. I have a lot to deal with at the moment, well not so much me. I'm not so well [health wise] and my mother [who has mental health problems herself] is.. oh it just crazy right now ive had thoughts about just taking loads of pills just to stop I feel itll be easier for my mother if I were gone.. its not the point though sorry
I know. I've always dwelled on it I think.. maybe it got worse as I become more withdrawn and depressed [I don't know if im actually depressed though] from everyone.
I don't feel forced.. it's just that i've never talked about it before to anyone [even right now i'm worrying like hell if i'm getting some 'feeling' just cause i'm talking about it] BUT I am going to talk about it - i feel like I need to just to clear the air I guess. okay. deep breath so uhm.. I started to 'masturbate' using pillows when I was young I don't know when it start probably ages 4-6 [telling you this because it will come into the other stuff] by rubbing against, basically pillows or armchairs or anything I could rub against, me and my sister started to pretend to have sex [my mum was friends with this woman who was pretty open about that so we pretended to be her/her boyfriend ] and i'd rub against her leg just like id do with a pillow until orgasm - [this probably started when i was about 6 - and yes i've had certain images and thoughts pop up into my mind about my sister, i even had a thought i'd actually 'date' her once though i probably - in real - would do that or ever touch her like that. when she wants a hug I say no because im scared her or anything touching me i'd get something from it.. its like an instant reaction cause i instantly worry and think that it would happen] i dont know how long this went on for but it probably didnt go on for a long time and i was the one to stop it after she tried to kiss me when i felt her tongue near my mouth i was nooo! never did it ever again... me and my sister have never spoken about this to eachother and i dont think we did when we were younger either we just went up to 'play' [must of been pretty young cause we were still playing with dolls ect my sister is 3 years older than me]. and now.. oh god. you have no idea how.. i feel like im 'feeling' something right now. i feel anxious i think thats not helping but now going on about me using pillows ect it went on for ages and it become quite the habit [i still sometimes do it now] but to the point where it was kind of obsessive id even make myself sore and then my mum would have to put some cream on [she never knew about this - though i used to do it behind her back when she was in the same room while on the computer. why? i can't even..] there are two more things i need to say and im really scared about saying it anxious.. if i get some feel, im getting 'something'. but ive got to do it, now when i do bored with using a pillow one day we had this dog [i was probably about 9/11 years] i used her like i did a pillow [hope you get what im saying] to come from i only did it a few times but its a very how could i of done that? i do dwell on these things, and another please please do not judge me.. now i have to tell you I was touched by my grandad when i was younger - i do not know how many times - though I remember even at 4 years old i did not like to be near him i felt there was something 'wrong' i even refused to sit on his lap on my mums wedding photos because of how i felt about him, i do not remember if it touched me before the time i 'first' remember - it was never anything major, i was [am] fat and had breasts younger than most this was before i was 10 probably, i was quite assertive with my 'NO' when he tried to put his hands under my clothes after rubbing me over them - he then went on to go it again and again but i always made up excuses i had to do something to get away so it never went farther than touching my breasts [obviously tried to stay away from him as much as possible - hes one of the family members i point blank refuse to see nowadays] so it wasnt anything major.. i had to tell you that because, when i was about 11/12 [i do not know how old she was about 2] family friend had a children, and when i was sitting with her alone i was thinking about what my grandad had done to me and how he touched me in certain ways [even in front of people] and while i was tihnking about what he had done "why would he do that? why would anyone do that?" i placed my hand on her leg and moved it upwards one finger brushed against her nappy i think - i moved away when she looked up and smiled at me. i was touching her, i was going to i did. how? why? it was a very.. like i wasn't really controlling what i doing I was sort of staring while thinking about what grandad had done or was i? I don't know I'm sorry... i also once held her when she was naked [she had a bath - she was crying, my mum shouted at me her getting her out] that sort of played on my mind a bit even then.
so there you go abuse sister dog baby. call me disgusting. i know. I didnt feel much while typing that, i dont know what i felt... like i didnt care? oh no. why? or did i. maybe im glad to get it off my chest
what if im really like that? no really. i honestly felt when i was typing that maybe i was anxious? i seem anxious recently since the dream.. maybe thats why i feel im 'feeling' something "there2 all the time. these thoughts.. just come up, what if? it's always what if isn't it?
these thoughts, what i feel really do affect my life, im scared of looking at my own nephew sometimes incase an image decides to pop up hide behind something when his nappy gets changed, scared when i walk in and catch a glimpse if hes being changed and believe i feel something from it, watching tv and worried and/or look away incase i see a baby in an advert or a dog programme [last night my mum was watching some animal rescue thing and i asked her a few times to turn it over to something else and she wouldnt! is it because im anxious, scared worried ect incase i do feel something? and that i end up feeling something because of that?]. im scared of hugging and touching my own mother even when shes crying i cant, i refuse to see my own dad sometimes because of it. i really don't know what else to write.. i wasnt even sure if i was gonna to get around to replying so i guess its better than nothing...
thanks about the info of OCD, interesting - i wouldnt know if i do or dont have it but i read the wiki intrusive thoughts one a while back and thought 'yep!'.. though when i googled about other people having them its because of depression or stress to the point of getting panic attacks - which makes me even more disgusted with myself because it might mean that im actually like this because ive never had that/never like it? - maybe people deal with it differently.. my mind is what i use to deal with stuff [which i know by because of my fantasy.. 'movies' i call them, they seem to be stopping/not as much though i try not to think of anything recently.. my doctor told me its probably because i dont go out and im not exposed to other people/normal social things/emotions that i make up my own - it can make my laugh, cry get embarrassed angry.. for the longest time i thought it really was someone else talking back to my thoughts but it was my own thoughts answering my thoughts back but because of the 'movie' that was there it seemed like osmeone else.. uhm confusing? it was, laughable now for me i actually thought it was someone else.. though they always cause me a lot of disappointment because deep down i believe they will happen and also.. when i was 15 they were at there worse to the point it caused my memory to be really bad cause the only thing i remembered and the only thing i wanted to think about was that - and caused some problems with my relationship with my mum cause i always got angry when she talked to me and interrupted my convo/movie/thoughts] so sorry that was completely off topic and not the point - I will look more into the OCD though, think its worth it [do people with ocd ever think they have it though? like with my BDD - i say no i dont because i look in the mirror and see what I see and feel what I touch and I know it's ugly/fat/asymmetrical]
Oh. HMM. I guess it was a shame, she wasnt that good anyway - the whole situation of going to talk to her was very embarrassing [one of my big fears is getting embarrassed, and damnit i know i will even if someone looks at me] for me being sat across from her in full view, i would barely say much to her [yes no answers were the norm] and most of the time i got through it by laughing and using humour - I wish she tried harder or made it easier for me at least.
I'm honestly thinking about approaching my mother about talking to someone, I would probably show thme this but first off the major parts of my life is that I don't go out or see people so we'd have to go alll through that and then I'd just want to give up. but I really am thinking about it - when you get to the point you're telling yourself you need help no, that you want help then maybe you should at least try.. I would have to show her/him this if i were to try to talk about it [oh and this talking? wouldn't be in the same room, me sat on my side of the closed door.. because i couldnt let them in the same room, to see me. no. no way, though i could just hold something in front of my face like i used to] because writing down.. again, i even have.. how can i put this but i dont like my handwriting. to the point i refuse to let anyone else to it, it's a bit of an.. i've always disliked it but it got really bad around age 14.. was homeschooled by this woman [which ended when I was 15? couldnt deal with it anymore] and i got so stressed out by it i scribbled all over my homework and kept re-writing until it was completely messy and made me feel even worse.
shouldn't have to deal with it? is it really that bad? It is, i know but i've just 'put up with it'.. probably driving myself crazy because of it though. I -will- ask my mum about talking to someone.
actually! my doctor from the hospital [who dealt with everything] is coming to visit me sometime so i'll have a talk with my mum about wanting a psyhologist and she'll talk to her about it because.. last of the many times i have had, i stayed behind the door and didnt say a word when she tried speaking to me. I guess you could say I'm a little difficult..
Sleeping is okay now, just the first night was a little hard because I kept [im guessing anxious feeling] rush over my body everytime I was falling into sleep - but I can't say i'm a great sleeper anyway I dont sleep in bed and also recently because of my health problems [my stomach is messed up] I find it hard to sleep comfy and have to sleep half sitting up cause if I lay down flat it feels worse so all this isn't helping at all. I've been playing on my nintendo DS to distract me from everything and I end up falling asleep while playing that so its okay, I wont stop myself from sleeping i slept through 6pm-2am last night and woke up a dream [ugh] about a forum post [no pictures] of someone talking about them and a dog, no "feeling" and woke up instantly with the thought 'no i didn't/dont?' i don't know what that was. it's okay I just have to remind myself not to worry about dreaming of what not
Oh okay, my grammar is pretty bad though i don't think i'm so bad for someone who left school as 13.
you've been A LOT of help, i feel comfortable talking to you aswell. thanks so much, really.. I do feel better, i did before and earlier today then I had thoughts again but now i'm alright.. we'll see
EDIT: I forgot to add this; I don't feel quilty about watching porn. not at all, most people have/do it IS normal to be curious.. i still watch it sometimes but i remember that i never really liked it anyway, that i was more of an addiction of always wanting to watch it, never got 'anything' from it. I just REALLY wish I hadn't of, that I could forget everything that i have ever seen..and some of the things i've come across i just wish i never had, it certainly didn't help and felt like it all got worse after [cause i knew what it looked like i guess?] thats why I mentioned it.. i'd give anything to forget
Don’t worry about the length - sometimes you just have to let stuff out!
It really doesn’t matter if your dream self was going to do it because of the website – because you’re not your dream self and your real self was not aroused by the website in your dream.
I really can’t say why the intrusive thoughts take the forms that they do, apart from guessing that it’s because they’re things that distress you. As for learning to ignore them, unfortunately you can’t stop intrusive thoughts appearing in your head (although you’ll probably find that eventually they’ll arrive a lot less often) – it’s about learning how to handle them when they do. Trying to keep your mind off them is a good way to go about it – not in the sense that you should do something else to try to force them out of your head, but to stop you focusing on the thought and worrying about it. So if a thought pops into your head while you’re not doing anything, try reading a book or playing your Nintendo DS or something, and just let the thought naturally fade from your mind. The trick is to not concentrate on the thought, but still not try to force it away – both of which give the thought more power in a sense. Another important thing to do is to remain as calm as possible – when you get a thought, and find yourself getting anxious or worried, take a deep breath, and then find something to distract yourself. There are other things you can do too – something I’ve heard some people do is when they get an intrusive thought, they tell themselves “no, I’ll deal with that later”, and carry on doing whatever they were doing, and then they give themselves maybe five or ten minutes every day to think through the intrusive thoughts and try to deal with them (I thought that it was called ‘compartmentalizing’, but according to wikipedia that has a different meaning, so I dunno what it’s called). Different things work for different people when it comes to dealing with intrusive thoughts I guess – like for me, what works best is when I get an intrusive thought, I try to remain very calm and think firmly to myself “no, I know that’s not true, and these are the reasons why”, list the reasons to myself, then find something to distract myself. Then when the intrusive thoughts come back, I can just let them come into my head and leave again, because I feel confident in myself that they’re not true. It’s hard to explain.
I know that you don’t want to think about the stuff in the thoughts. Like you said, the thoughts just happen and you’re absolutely only getting that ‘feeling’ because you’re so anxious and you’re concentrating on that area, looking for feelings there. As hard as it is, try not to worry about it.
I’m sorry that things are tough at the minute. Please, please don’t take any pills or do anything to harm yourself in any way, no matter how difficult things might get. Suicide is not the answer. And it would not make anything easier for your mother – I’m sure that she loves you very much and if you were gone it would tear her apart. Please don’t do it.
Firstly, (you probably know this but I’ll say it anyway just to be sure) there’s nothing wrong with masturbation; and the majority of people do do it from a pretty young age. Children often don’t really recognise that it’s considered to be a ‘private’ activity, though, hence why your childhood self had no qualms about doing it in the same room as your mother. (I am absolutely not saying you did something bad or should feel guilty or anything like that, of course.) As for what happened between you and your sister, many many many children do things like that with each other – that sort of ‘sex play’ is due to childhood innocence and curiosity about sex. It doesn’t make the children bad or mean they’ve done anything wrong – it’s a pretty normal part of their development. (And again, the thoughts you’ve had about your sister are simply intrusive thoughts, they don’t mean anything about you)
As for what you did with your dog – again, please try not to worry about it. Dr Robert talks about childhood experimentation with animals here: http://askdrrobert.dr-robert.com/_bestiality.html Again it’s something that many children do, and it doesn’t make you a bad person or ‘disgusting’ or anything.
I’m sorry about what your grandfather did to you. I hope you know that none of what he did was your fault in the slightest, and I hope that you have done/are doing whatever you need/needed to in order to deal with it.
What you did to the baby was not abuse (and neither was any of the other stuff you’re worried about that you did during your childhood. Just to clarify, what your grandfather did to you was abuse). You were an innocent, confused child trying to make sense out of what had happened to you. You are not a bad person, and I haven’t judged you badly for it at all. I know I’ve said it before, but you really have no need to feel guilty about any of the things that you did as a child. Try to let them go and stop dwelling on them.
You’re avoiding these things (being around your nephew, tv shows, your mother etc) because they’re ‘triggers’ for your intrusive thoughts – they make you scared and anxious that you’re going to feel something (which in turn leads you to focus on the area and convince yourself that you feel something). It’s very common when dealing with intrusive thoughts for people to avoid situations that trigger them. You could try finding ways to deal with these situations that make them easier for you – for example, if you’re watching tv with your mum again, try having a book or magazine with you, so when it’s the adverts or a programme that’s causing you stress, you can read the magazine/book to distract yourself so you don’t have to watch the programme? The whole idea of exposure therapy is based around dealing with this sort of thing – basically, the person doing the exposure therapy puts themselves in a situation that causes a very small amount of anxiety, then when the situation no longer causes them any distress, they try a situation that causes them slightly more anxiety, and so on. I’m not sure if that’s something that should be done without input from a therapist or psychologist though.
You don’t have to have stress or depression to get intrusive thoughts. People do deal with things differently because no two people’s brains are the same. As for whether people know they have OCD or not, it can depend I think. Like, now that I’ve been diagnosed with it (although technically I diagnosed myself and the psychologist I spoke to soon after confirmed it), I recognise that I have it, and I can tell when something that’s bothering me is due to my OCD. However, looking back to before I was diagnosed, I think I’ve probably had it for most of my life and simply never realised anything was ‘wrong’ – like there were things in the past that I can now attribute to OCD that would really distress me at the time, but I didn’t realise it wasn’t ‘normal’, if you see what I mean. My mother was the same way in that she didn’t realise that she has it until after I was diagnosed and she found out a bit more about it. And we’ve both come to the conclusion after living with her for a while that it’s likely that her mother, my grandmother has it too without knowing it (although we’re not sure whether we should express this to her as she’s not particularly understanding about mental illness and would probably take it as a huge insult or something and get upset, and as it doesn’t seem to have much of an impact on her life or distress her or anything... but that’s a whole other matter really)
It’s good that you’re looking into finding a psychologist to help you. Judging by what you’ve said about your previous psychologist it sounds like she just wasn’t right for you. It happens – psychologists do have varying approaches and styles so you’re not always going to find one who works well with you straight away. Obviously there will be some amount of discomfort during therapy due to the things being discussed and stuff, but you should at least feel comfortable with the person you’re talking to. You do also have to try to communicate with them if something is making you uncomfortable – they won’t be offended, they’re there to help you as best they can. But never be afraid to ask to see a different psychologist if the one you’re currently seeing isn’t working well with you – if you don’t feel comfortable with them and you don’t feel that they’re making an effort to help you feel comfortable, if they make you feel like they’re judging you etc – it’s often worthwhile asking to see somebody else instead.
I think that writing things down is probably the best way to go if you’re not comfortable talking. You can always type it up on your computer and print it out before the session so that you don’t need to handwrite it.
I’m glad that you’re sleeping okay now, and I’m very pleased that I’ve been able to help. : )
I really don't know what else to say, but thanks. I haven't talked to my mum about wanting to talk to psychologist and I doubt I will - I'm not sure if you get how hard it is for me to even ask for something simple let alone going to her about that and probably getting the why question. my doctor is coming on the 18th though [I think], so maybe I'll pluck up the courage to say something to her when she comes upstairs to talk to me
the thoughts about THAT stuff seem to be there -constantly- and even when they aint and I have my mind on others things forgetting about it then I realise I'm not thinking about it and.. there you go again! it's like I can't think about anything else and at times it's worse [such as strong images]. I keep coming back here to read what you've put to reassure myself that it's not me and it's not anything I control over and not something I want. I remember coming across this website when googling for some website I was about 14 and not realising what it was until a few scrolls down and I remember how sickened I was by it and shocked, so I tell myself that's how I feel towards the thoughts and it's not actually me/what I want but then I feel so unbothered by such things now that I'm scared I actually like it or wouldn't care if I came across something like that or I'm always avoiding such things [tv shows, being around others] because maybe I know I'm get an actual feeling from it y'know? but it's just THERE, always and can't think about anything without it going back to that. I do think the thoughts move on to something else every now and again, before images of anything would put up about family members/babies and what else anything really.. I think maybe the thoughts about that stuff is there all the time basically because of how bad I reacted to the dream and how it made me feel and how strong I reacted[really distressed and I cried aswell] and the fact I'm probably [without realising maybe] worrying about it that I can't shake them off. I had such images pop up before the dream but I don't think it had started long.. I really don't want to go on that link you put because it might trigger it more and I'll instantly feel like I'm 'feeling' something, even just by realising what the damn title says maybe it's a panic feeling aswell that I focus straight on if I feel anything or that it's 'me'
I try to let them just 'be' and try not them get to me but it's kind of hard when it's keep coming back into your mind/seems like they are always there - I do think very firmly "stop" "no" and such things like that, ugh I just had another image... reacted by squeezing my hands into a tight fist and thinking NO several times.. I don't want this, it's constantly there - why is it? what if it's always there because it's actuall who I am? I can't help but think that, whenever I try to think about something else it goes back to that, I try to daydream about I don't know - going to hogwarts or something completely impossible and it GOES BACK TO THAT. I really hate myself
I forgot to add that I was pretty torn up after I had a dream about a man and a baby [I'm not quite sure if it was a dream or an image that popped up into my mind - probably a dream, one that was just there quite soon before I woke up] but after I had the dream and had forgotten about it I had an image pop up into my mind that reminded me of it and I was crying about it, thinking the worst about myself cause of it just messed up really. I still can't quite shake that image out of my head, it's just there. I guess I'll always be like this? it's horrible, I really think I'm disgusting. why can't I be different?
NO. can't get that image out of my mind now I've talked about it, god why did I make it worse?! no sure it was even necessary to talk about about it..