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Re: brainwashing

Does it have to be a legal way? Do you have access to your fathers house? Computer? Or are you looking for a psychological solution? Destroying the fathers self-image is a possible solution, followed by a carefully planned breakdown. These are suggestion with the goal of destroying the sons perception of the father, by the way.

Or do you just want to get him out without causing anything to the father?

Re: brainwashing

Hexi
Does it have to be a legal way? Do you have access to your fathers house? Computer? Or are you looking for a psychological solution? Destroying the fathers self-image is a possible solution, followed by a carefully planned breakdown. These are suggestion with the goal of destroying the sons perception of the father, by the way.



Or do you just want to get him out without causing anything to the father?


Actually, LOL, all of my solutions involve a great deal of suffering on the part of the father. It would be so easy to destroy him - he's a paranoid type. Unfortunately, I feel obligated not to pursue any of them. I have children, and it would be a bad example for them.

Destroying his self-image is about the only way to break the brother free, I think, realistically, though. He doesn't have access to the cash it would take to fight him in court, and it is unlikely he would win anyhow. The father is a clever criminal and has cultivated his own personal attorney by buying the attorney a building in which to build his own practice. I know him to be guilty of tax fraud (I did have access to his computer at one time.) and cooking the books (embezzling much). That information has been reported to the IRS and state, but seems to have gotten lost in the bureaucracy.

My brother won't rock the boat because he is obligated to the customers and to his wife and children to continue working. He also employs a very rigid rule system for himself, as do I.

I could shoot him, and not feel a thing, but I'm not allowed to do that. >< That is one of the things that really annoy me with life. I get that we are not allowed to just shoot people randomly, but this person has not one single solitary redeeming quality. Really, the entire universe is better off without him. I don't get why it's wrong to remove him. Oh, I get the whole thing about we can't go around killing people because who are we to say one life is worth more than another ... but ... it's just not fair what he gets away with. *grumble*

So, to answer your question. I do not care if the father gets hurt in the process. I would prefer it. But only if it were a hurt that would have happened naturally. I think it is best I not cause it, unduly.

My father is a runner. When things get out of his control, he cuts and runs. I'm sure he's got cash to support himself in some third world country somewhere stashed away somewhere. I just wish he'd hurry up and go heh.

Re: brainwashing

Right, i was thinking along the lines of implanting child porn on his computer. Is he allergic to anything? If so, violently? Does he have gas heating? Business trips? If so, how often and with what method does he move around? These are important things to consider!

Re: brainwashing

Hexi
Right, i was thinking along the lines of implanting child porn on his computer. Is he allergic to anything? If so, violently? Does he have gas heating? Business trips? If so, how often and with what method does he move around? These are important things to consider!

Ooo ... you're a bad influence! hahahahahaha j/k

Re: brainwashing

Right, i was thinking along the lines of implanting child porn on his computer. Is he allergic to anything? If so, violently? Does he have gas heating? Business trips? If so, how often and with what method does he move around? These are important things to consider!

LOL

Does he have gas heating?

Is he allergic to anything? If so, violently?


I don't think she wants to kill him! :D

Re: brainwashing

unknown

Ooo ... you're a bad influence! hahahahahaha j/k


You asked so you got me into thinking these things! I'm just being nice and obliging.

Re: brainwashing

Actually, I know the best approach is two-pronged: fire off his paranoia by planting bugs around his house and attack his delusions by exposing them to his business associates. He would self-implode in a few months.

There are a whole lot of reasons why I don't follow through with, well, what I see as a practical solution. One, I fear it doesn't help my brother. He's got to see this for himself and find his balls. It drives me nuts he doesn't see the manipulation - the brainwashing techniques in play here are straight out of a military manual - text book operation. Two, I fear it doesn't help me. I know I'd enjoy it. Too much.

But, the real question, ought to be is there a way to motivate a person to save himself from a bad situation or must we, necessarily, just let them falter until they find a way of their own. What if they cannot find their own way?

Re: brainwashing

unknown

But, the real question, ought to be is there a way to motivate a person to save himself from a bad situation or must we, necessarily, just let them falter until they find a way of their own. What if they cannot find their own way?


Well that depends. Do you want him to see what you see or what he should see? If he is blindly believing evertyhing he's being spoonfed then he will believe that he was framed, if he so proclaims, thus the situation will blow in your face. My honest opinion? People that can't or wont help themselves deserver what they get. My brother is being take advantage of at work, he is a doormat to be honest and i've tried to point it out to him, subtly, to get a spine but it didn't help so i don't bother anymore. He seems content in taking it up the ass.

Re: brainwashing

That is the crux of my dilemma. Do I want him to want what is good for him because it is good for him or because it is good for me. I can't answer that, so I do nothing (anymore).

With the other brother, who has been successfully extricated from the clutches of the father, it was easy. Well, it took a year and a half, but it was easy. (He's 15 years younger than the other brother and I).

This one is complicated, though. We both are preconditioned to be martyrs anyhow (really odd childhood). It is an interesting exercise to consider how to "fix" the "problem," but really nothing more than an exercise. I can't really save him, I suspect, until he reaches his breaking point.

Re: brainwashing

Hmm... one possibility is to isolate him from the father, like going on a trip with him and explain to him what manipulation is and how it's achieved, extensively. Show him examples, maybe even manipulate him to do something or act in a certain way, then explain how you did it, just to prove a point. Preferrably with the younger brother so he can identify with something. This is ofcourse if you can really be bothered. :)

Re: brainwashing

Hexi
Hmm... one possibility is to isolate him from the father, like going on a trip with him and explain to him what manipulation is and how it's achieved, extensively. Show him examples, maybe even manipulate him to do something or act in a certain way, then explain how you did it, just to prove a point. Preferrably with the younger brother so he can identify with something. This is ofcourse if you can really be bothered. :)


Shortly after I liberated the younger brother, we "staged an intervention" in an attempt to pull his head out of his arse. We delivered nearly two reams of paper containing all of the evidence we'd gathered to "prove" to him what was going on. He saw it there for a minute - understood it even. He tried to do something, tried to find an attorney to help, tried to regain some control, but once he realized how completely and totally he had been used, something in him died, I think.

And so he endures.

I rarely ever talk to my brother, anyway. He's more like your side of the coin than mine. He likes to make people squirm, and there is a hollowness in him that is almost palpable. I do enjoy the time I spend with him, but neither of us actually think to seek the other out. I would drop what I was doing and rush off to fight to the death for him, in a heartbeat, though. It's unlikely I will act again, in this regard, until he asks. It's kinda pointless, really, until then.

Oh, and it's impossible to isolate him. He never stops working. I mean, like, quite literally, he works and sleeps. That's it.

Re: brainwashing

On the subject of brainwashing, here is an old interview with an ex-kgb agent from 86. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2307456730142665916&ei=0QLzSOiACJH8qAPUtJH4Dw&q=Yuri+Bezmenov%2C#

Anything familiar with it? ;)

Re: brainwashing

I had a look at it, it's quite interesting.
One thing I didn't quite understand, in the end was he for or against communism?

Re: brainwashing

Toby
I had a look at it, it's quite interesting.
One thing I didn't quite understand, in the end was he for or against communism?


I firmly belive you even failed to understand the point of me posting this, what it contained and the implications of it.

Re: brainwashing

Interesting video. I've read some of Bezmenov's writing but never seen this video. Intimidation, propaganda, limiting food/shelter choices/resources - using survival as a distraction, meddling in marriages, killing the awareness, stress, filtered information, distract, distract, distract, etc. . . . yes very familiar.

"A person who was demoralized is unable to assess true information."

Toby, he clearly is not in favor of communism.

Re: brainwashing

Hexi - Facepalm. :)

I thought so too but he went along with it in the first place...

Re: brainwashing

This will most likely become a wall of text so i apologize in advance. It will also, most likely, contain incoherent ranting.

I will continue on on the subject of global brainwashing.

You should look into China, billions of people who have the choice to either work 12h/day or die, with no hope of ever getting out of that situation, for them or their children or their childrens children. That is where we are headed, on a global scale. You will have the unquestioned freedom to do what you're told or die of starvation.

Since the monarchies of europe were overthrown, the people with the "old money", the true capital, have been trying to get back in charge. The british empire crumbled because they lacked the essential component, delusional masses. This resulted in the formation of US, which ofcourse was the turning point for the empire.

WW1 was sparked by a single bullet. You do not cause such chaos without careful planning. The US joined the war after being isolated for so long over a telegram? Oh, right, they sank the Lusitania, which was in a warzone, and they knew it.

WW2 was sparked by a fire? Well, Germany invaded Polad, but on a pretense. Which they themselves started. If you believe old Nazi officers, that is. The US was supplying the Allies with arms and other stuff, for ridiculous prices. Untill pearl harbour, they were neutral. It's been suggested, and there is some evidence to support the claim, that the US knew Japan would attack, another pretense to go to war. US never declared war on anyone else but Japan, Germany declared war on the US, which makes no sense whatsoever. Atleast not if you are fighting a war already that you want to win, and were winning. Ofcourse the US put Hitler in power in the first place. Not to mention the military equipment they sold to them.

Now, what spawned from these 2 wars? Giants leaps in technology, medicine and a about 100mil corpses (no one knows the exact number ofcourse, it may as well have been double that), bankrupt europe and only 2 real superpowers but most importantly, the cold war. Cold war was the first of it's kind. It was a war waged over minds (aprt from proxy wars). Communism VS Liberty. More than that, it was a series of psychological and social experiments. The Germans (in ww2) had the nation swept by madness, this had to be researched and so they did. The US was a tough nut to crack because power was distributed. Capitalism and the incremental reduction of the distribution of power was the key. The next step, the current one, is the, again incremental, destruction of liberties on false pretenses. To rally the masses behind you by appearing the be the innocent victim is THE oldest trick in the book. It's basic psychological warfare 101 yet people fall for it again and again and again.

The direct spark of the current events is ofcourse 9/11 attacks, which resulted in the deaths of almost 3k people. The result, so far, is over 4k us soldiers and over 1 million Iraqis, most of them civilians. around 50k dead in Afghanistan. 7k+ in Somalia and lastly, the utter disfiguration of your vaunted liberties. They have become situational.

So now we are here. We have Russia which is as democratic as China. We have China that is the perverted offspring of communism and capitalism and the perfect example to follow if you want to control the masses. Then we have the EU which is following suit (unless it's dismantled) where unelected officials are deciding laws for individual countries. Then we have the US, which like i pointed out earlier, is heading towards a totalitarian police state, allthough slowly, if you look at the big picture of then and now.

Who controls these countries? The leaders? No, the corporations. Who controls the corporations? The offspring of the same "old money" people that swayed the monarchs of old. World domination has been attempted since the dawn of time but physical war has failed over and over again, for obvious reasons. The only way is to dumb down the masses, then unite the world with a "common goal", which is again a false pretense, and then bring the boot down, China style (Tiananmen square).

The key is to realize that there ARE people who simply do not care about human lives and look at them as a resource to which the laws of supply and demand apply. Give persons like that virtually unlimited resources and influence and it's not such a far-fetched idea, it might even seem like a noble idea, no more war or animosity. This is what my bored mind has thought about. I might be wrong or right, it doesn't REALLY matter, what matters is entertaining the thought. Maybe i just see the patterns more clearly because i am such a person who could execute such plans without remorse.

Thank you for reading. :)

Re: brainwashing

Hexi
This will most likely become a wall of text so i apologize in advance. It will also, most likely, contain incoherent ranting.



I will continue on on the subject of global brainwashing.



You should look into China, billions of people who have the choice to either work 12h/day or die, with no hope of ever getting out of that situation, for them or their children or their childrens children. That is where we are headed, on a global scale. You will have the unquestioned freedom to do what you're told or die of starvation.



Since the monarchies of europe were overthrown, the people with the "old money", the true capital, have been trying to get back in charge. The british empire crumbled because they lacked the essential component, delusional masses. This resulted in the formation of US, which ofcourse was the turning point for the empire.



WW1 was sparked by a single bullet. You do not cause such chaos without careful planning. The US joined the war after being isolated for so long over a telegram? Oh, right, they sank the Lusitania, which was in a warzone, and they knew it.



WW2 was sparked by a fire? Well, Germany invaded Polad, but on a pretense. Which they themselves started. If you believe old Nazi officers, that is. The US was supplying the Allies with arms and other stuff, for ridiculous prices. Untill pearl harbour, they were neutral. It's been suggested, and there is some evidence to support the claim, that the US knew Japan would attack, another pretense to go to war. US never declared war on anyone else but Japan, Germany declared war on the US, which makes no sense whatsoever. Atleast not if you are fighting a war already that you want to win, and were winning. Ofcourse the US put Hitler in power in the first place. Not to mention the military equipment they sold to them.



Now, what spawned from these 2 wars? Giants leaps in technology, medicine and a about 100mil corpses (no one knows the exact number ofcourse, it may as well have been double that), bankrupt europe and only 2 real superpowers but most importantly, the cold war. Cold war was the first of it's kind. It was a war waged over minds (aprt from proxy wars). Communism VS Liberty. More than that, it was a series of psychological and social experiments. The Germans (in ww2) had the nation swept by madness, this had to be researched and so they did. The US was a tough nut to crack because power was distributed. Capitalism and the incremental reduction of the distribution of power was the key. The next step, the current one, is the, again incremental, destruction of liberties on false pretenses. To rally the masses behind you by appearing the be the innocent victim is THE oldest trick in the book. It's basic psychological warfare 101 yet people fall for it again and again and again.



The direct spark of the current events is ofcourse 9/11 attacks, which resulted in the deaths of almost 3k people. The result, so far, is over 4k us soldiers and over 1 million Iraqis, most of them civilians. around 50k dead in Afghanistan. 7k+ in Somalia and lastly, the utter disfiguration of your vaunted liberties. They have become situational.



So now we are here. We have Russia which is as democratic as China. We have China that is the perverted offspring of communism and capitalism and the perfect example to follow if you want to control the masses. Then we have the EU which is following suit (unless it's dismantled) where unelected officials are deciding laws for individual countries. Then we have the US, which like i pointed out earlier, is heading towards a totalitarian police state, allthough slowly, if you look at the big picture of then and now.



Who controls these countries? The leaders? No, the corporations. Who controls the corporations? The offspring of the same "old money" people that swayed the monarchs of old. World domination has been attempted since the dawn of time but physical war has failed over and over again, for obvious reasons. The only way is to dumb down the masses, then unite the world with a "common goal", which is again a false pretense, and then bring the boot down, China style (Tiananmen square).



The key is to realize that there ARE people who simply do not care about human lives and look at them as a resource to which the laws of supply and demand apply. Give persons like that virtually unlimited resources and influence and it's not such a far-fetched idea, it might even seem like a noble idea, no more war or animosity. This is what my bored mind has thought about. I might be wrong or right, it doesn't REALLY matter, what matters is entertaining the thought. Maybe i just see the patterns more clearly because i am such a person who could execute such plans without remorse.



Thank you for reading. :)


QFT ;)

Our modern corporations are no different than the feudal systems of ancient Japan or the feudal systems in merry old England. It's the same old same old pattern since the dawn of time. Wealth is concentrated into the hands of the few, the wealthy control the masses through brainwashing, for lack of a better term, given enough to subsist but not enough to have the time to THINK.