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Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Toby
Yes, but our word is better. :)


LOL. Right. But my word is omi, which is Yoruban and therefore better. Sorry man, but you've gotta go. DEATH TO INFIDELS!

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

DEATH TO INFIDELS!


Eeeep! :) I thought you were American, or do you just live in America? Doesn't matter anyway :D

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Actually. i begin to see where we are different. My parents never even tried to taught me anything relating to spiritualism. Infact, my parents didn't really teach me much anything, other than practical things. Perhaps this is why metaphysical philosophies don't touch me, nothing was ever "imprinted" to me in my childhood regarding such matters so i have never felt the need to search answers to such a degree as to get into religion. Maybe it's a cultural thing as religion is meaningless in Finnish society, no one cares what others think about god or other such matters.

Hmm, i'm actually curious now as to where the need to understand the metaphysical comes from, considering how subjective the subject is.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Hexi
Actually. i begin to see where we are different. My parents never even tried to taught me anything relating to spiritualism. Infact, my parents didn't really teach me much anything, other than practical things. Perhaps this is why metaphysical philosophies don't touch me, nothing was ever "imprinted" to me in my childhood regarding such matters so i have never felt the need to search answers to such a degree as to get into religion. Maybe it's a cultural thing as religion is meaningless in Finnish society, no one cares what others think about god or other such matters.



Hmm, i'm actually curious now as to where the need to understand the metaphysical comes from, considering how subjective the subject is.


The need to understand the metaphysical is as fundamental to our being as the need to pee. In all of recorded history, we are ever searching to understand this thing. At least, the sentient amoung us, are.

Our parents share their opinions with us, but at some point, the rational being will question those opinions and absorb those which pass the test of reason and reject those which don't.

I am a bit confused how God got into the love thread, but I suppose love is a metaphysical thing. hehe

Hexi, would you say everything has an opposite? If so, what do you say the opposite of love is?

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Perhaps it is because i've never witnessed or felt love that i don't believe in it.

I don't see metaphysical as a nescessesity in our universe. More and more phenomenon that were considered metaphysical in the past, have become quantifiable. I don't see this trend being reversed. I know there are things that science can't explain, not yet atleast, but that does not automatically suggest a metaphysical reason. Likewise, divine entities are not required for us to exist. Also, i know religion is more about the fundamental look on life and our universe but i just don't accept the metaphysical of it.

Opposite of love? I would say ambition.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference"

Hexi
Perhaps it is because i've never witnessed or felt love that i don't believe in it.


But Whitewolf said that Psychopaths can feel love, but only for family etc. Or are we not calling him a psychopath anymore?

The opposite of love? Not hate, But selfishness, in my opinion.
Do you ever think you'll experience anything like love? Or if you could, would you? :)

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Ambition is not selfish or greedy? I thought about indifference, which is fine too but love is so much more, simple indifference would just be a part of the opposite. Love and hate are closer to eachother than people realize :P

No, i don't feel anything towards my brothers or my mother, my father i don't even know as my mom left him when i was 4. To me they are just people, people that are hard to ignore at times but not much more.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Right, Right.
So by nothing, do you mean completely nothing?
I mean, if someone threatened to kill them, would you care? Would you protect them? :)

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Toby
Right, Right.
So by nothing, do you mean completely nothing?
I mean, if someone threatened to kill them, would you care? Would you protect them? :)


I might pretend to care. Protect? Would i jump infront of a bullet? No.

EDIT: Actually, i've "protected" my half-brother before but that was purely an excuse to sate my violent tendencies so i'm not sure that counts.

EDIT2: Oh.. do i think i'll ever experience love? What kind of a question is that? Do you think you'll get cancer? (without the negative connotations)

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

What's wrong with that question?

As a psychopath, do you think you'll ever experience Love?
Do I think i'll get cancer? Probably, I mean, with diabetes I have an increased risk of pancreatic cancer...

If someone had a gun to your brothers head and only you could save the day with your own gun, would you?

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Toby

If someone had a gun to your brothers head and only you could save the day with your own gun, would you?


Yes, he would, but not for the reason you would. Knowing that most people would expect him to shoot and much more importantly excuse the death of that someone would free him from the constraint of fear of incarceration and allow him the luxury of ridding the world of a nuisance.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Ok, that was a poor example i admit. Still, the answer would be "no, i don't know if i'll ever experience love, nor do i care if i do or not".

Yes, i would shoot the person, in the face actually, but like said, not for the reasons you would. Actually, fear of prison has never stopped me before so that's not really in the equation. (i have a... colourful past)

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Dr robert is right, why did the discussion go to me and my views again. I'm gonna stop answering your questions Toby. You already know the answers anyway.

Where did the concept of love come from? Is it imprinted within us? Foolish notion, inspired by romance novels? What is the purpose of love? Surely it's not biological, as it goes against survival of the self. (i'm shamelessly trying to get back on topic)

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Thanks, Hexi--

Yes, that is the point, and I think Whitewolf intentionally or unintentionally misunderstood it.

I am not trying to ban psychopathic points of view from discussion here. Far from it. I just hope that this forum will evolve into a place for serious discussion about MANY topics in the realm of human psychology, not just psychopaths and what they believe about themselves or about life. After all, only two or three people in a hundred are psychopathic, so why should this forum be so focused on that one kind of mind.

Psychopaths, and even their groupies (Toby) are welcome here, and it is never a question of themes which I personally want to see pursued as Whitewolf erroneously believes. But there is a lot going on in the human mind--certainly psychopathy is only a very small fraction of it. Let's give psychopathy as a topic a rest for a while and see where this forum might go. There are intelligent people checking in here daily. I want to see what that collection of talent might produce.

This does not exclude psychopaths at all. It just means that psychopathy as a central focus has had lots of space here, and now it seems time for other interests to get a turn. Just to be clear, this does not mean to exclude the expression of the psychopathic p.o.v. which is a part of life and an important factor philosophically and ethically. It simply means that psychopathy as a central theme has already been well explored here (practically with pornographic interest by some curious contributors who seem to want to get off on the very idea of freedom from guilt), and now I would like to see discussion move in other directions. Not ones that I choose, by the way (Whitewolf), but simply others.

Website: www.dr-robert.com

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Sorry, I was just curious. :)

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Ambition is an intriguing response. I would define ambition as a strong desire for material success.

I would never have said that ambition is the opposite of love, but I just realize that I would never have said it because I wouldn't have thought to verbalize it that way even though I've lived that way! and I realize it only just now.

If you were to say to me that I turned my back on my ambitions when I chose to (try to learn to) love, I would be hard pressed to argue the point, now that I think about it through this filter. Somehow, I felt that ambition stood in the way of love, that the two were mutually exclusive.

Very interesting response - thank you very much.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Ecce Homo
My word is omi, which is Yoruban


Now, this is interesting. Do you actually speak Yoruban or are you making a point? If so, how'd you get Christian parents? Very curious ^.^

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Unknown and Toby:

I am American, born and raised. I pulled the Yoruba example out of my yahoo for didactic purposes only. The only reason I know anything about anything Yoruban is due to my initiation into Santeria some years ago during my seeker period.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Oh right, I can't believe I went for that... :)

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Ecce Homo
Unknown and Toby:

I am American, born and raised. I pulled the Yoruba example out of my yahoo for didactic purposes only. The only reason I know anything about anything Yoruban is due to my initiation into Santeria some years ago during my seeker period.


I figured :P

Maferefun Ifa.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

unknown
Maferefun Ifa.


Nice! That brings back memories. I would have been dedicated to Obatala if I'd gone on to becoming a full fledged santero.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Ecce Homo

What I was referring to is beyond emotion, although it certainly includes emotion. It is not an ideal to aspire to or a fantasy to deride. It is that which exists prior to thought, encompasses thought and remains when thought ceases. It is you unmasked.


To me, you reject reality and constitute it with your own, much like drug addicts, because something happened that made you reject it. To you, you see a reality which escapes from others. I think we are both right, which is fine.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Hexi
To me, you reject reality and constitute it with your own, much like drug addicts, because something happened that made you reject it. To you, you see a reality which escapes from others.


Yeah, I'm going to go ahead and assume this is why there is no resonance... You think I'm a drug addict without the drugs! LOL! The universe has a lovely sense of humor.

I think we are both right, which is fine.


And this is how we just get on with it, no? :-)

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Hexi
So ecco's posts reaffirm your own beliefs? I actually agree with him on many occasions, i meant that i find his way of elaborating everything to the max boring. Maybe it's because i've studied journalism, purely on amateur basis, and gotten "used" to keeping it "short and to the point" and thus find it somewhat annoying spending 10 minutes to read what could be a single paragraph. Oh well, i didn't mean it offensively to anyone, i was just curious.


I doubt anyone took offense to that :) While I reserve the right to suggest his thoughts don't resonate with yours, I now see more what you were saying, perhaps.

I, too, tend to be very verbose because our words are so limited. A short statement can contain an inordinate amount of meaning, but unless one's audience is inclined to really think - I mean as in consider all the nuances that the statement brings to the table - the majority of the meaning is lost.

Consider the man who asks his teacher, "Teacher, why do I always end up with useless women who just use me and leave me?" The teacher replies, "Dogs hunt b*tches." The man may think, then, that all women are just that way. The enlightened man may think, then, that something about his own behaviour attracts the sort of women one doesn't take home to mother.

Goodness, I go to pick my daughter up from school, and you all got quite wordy! I'll have to catch up on the rest of this thread after homework.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

unknown


Consider the man who asks his teacher, "Teacher, why do I always end up with useless women who just use me and leave me?" The teacher replies, "Dogs hunt b*tches." The man may think, then, that all women are just that way. The enlightened man may think, then, that something about his own behaviour attracts the sort of women one doesn't take home to mother.


The second example is exactly how i would take it and is exactly how i communicate with people. It works for me as it's easy to weed out people who are simple and those that actually think.

EDIT: I also understand it's a terrible way to communicate purely by text as many meanings are conveyd through tone of voice, body language and pronunciation.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Hexi
What i said is how i see "pure. unconditional love". I understand it, intellectually, but i have never felt it or anything close to it. I see it as an idle fantasy, an ideal.


Here is a short, concise statement which is difficult to "understand." Is this due to a difference in our languages or how we see the world or what? I don't know.

I can say, and mean it entirely, that pure, unconditional love is an ideal, but I could never say that it is an idle fantasy.

Even before I knew what love was on a personal level, I believed in the idea of it, recognized the great wisdom of humanity and considered it an ideal, and ultimately learned to experience it in my life. None of which would have been possible had I written it off as an idle fantasy in the beginning.

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

Toby
Ecce, how did you get to be so... I don't know.. your answers are just so... kind of... you know what I mean. Wisdom-ous (?)… Did you just suddenly one day become enlightened…


Wisdom-ous! Awesome. I love the creation of new words!

I pretty much answered this question in my comment to Unknown. I didn’t start out looking for truth, but in the end, truth is what I found.

And by the way Toby, you are just as “enlightened” as I am. Another truth that I have come to see is that everyone is equally “enlightened”. Everyone sees what I see because everyone is “that”. In fact, there is no everyone in the ultimate sense. There is only One and It always sees Itself. Neither I, nor Unknown nor anyone else is special. The only thing stopping everyone from seeing who they are is their belief in ego (the thoughts most people mistake for their self).

Re: Life and Love in the Here and Now

And by the way Toby, you are just as “enlightened” as I am. Another truth that I have come to see is that everyone is equally “enlightened”. Everyone sees what I see because everyone is “that”. In fact, there is no everyone in the ultimate sense. There is only One and It always sees Itself. Neither I, nor Unknown nor anyone else is special. The only thing stopping everyone from seeing who they are is their belief in ego (the thoughts most people mistake for their self).


That's a nice way of thinking. :)

Wisdom-ous! Awesome. I love the creation of new words!


Thanks! I was going to say Wisdom-full, but that would've just been stupid... LOL


Neither I, nor Unknown nor anyone else is special.


Oh! :-(

The only thing stopping everyone from seeing who they are is their belief in ego (the thoughts most people mistake for their self).


Yes, I agree with you there.