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Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

Toby


Logic v Morality?
The majority of the world choose morality.


Right up untill no one is watching, to believe otherwise is delusional. I think morality is just something people claim to have to appear superior, to be "the bigger man". Take slavery for example. It wasn't morally wrong to have slaves in the day, untill it was. :) Society made slavery morally wrong.

EDIT: Which ties into conscience, which is have a fun theory about.

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

You're wrong.
I have morality and I am not lying.
Morals are real, and I still have them when 'no one is watching'.
Plenty of people thought slavery was wrong, even when the majority of people didn't.

You create your own morals, and your conscience inforces them. What's terrible about that? Oh that's right, I am "not free" because I have a mechanism that enforces what I believe in, what I desegnate as 'right' or 'wrong'.

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

Toby
You're wrong.
I have morality and I am not lying.
Morals are real, and I still have them when 'no one is watching'.
Plenty of people thought slavery was wrong, even when the majority of people didn't.

You create your own morals, and your conscience inforces them. What's terrible about that? Oh that's right, I am "not free" because I have a mechanism that enforces what I believe in, what I desegnate as 'right' or 'wrong'.


Ahh, but now you are getting to the meat of it. Conscience enforces your morals. Where do these morals come from? My opinion is that they come from your initial "caregiver" you had as a small child and your conscience tells you, subconsciously, when you're doing something that would make you feel embarrassed or this "caregiver" would think is wrong, if he/she would be there to watch you. Note that this caregiver does not nescessarily mean your parent(s), it might be anyone from your early childhood and thus societys morals evolve and change due to influence. That is also why primitive tribes don't evolve, the population is too seclusive for change to enter the picture thus new ideas rarely appear.

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

I know where most of my morals come from, The Bible.

Divine Command.
So to me the phrase "charity is good" means exactly the same thing as phrases such as "God commands charity".
Go ahead, tell me I am brainwashed, that I have delegated the core part of how I live my life, but In the end, it's made me a better person, and only I know that.

It does, however, leave me with the Euthyphro dilemma - "Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good?"

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

Toby
I know where most of my morals come from, The Bible.


And when/where did you find your faith? Think real hard on this one and answer honestly, if at all possible.

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

When did I find my faith?

I was bored. I decided to set myself the challenge of reading the entire Bible in two days, I did. And I admired it's teaching so much I decided to follow them; to convert to Christianity.

When?
At age 16.
I know (Or At least I think I do) what you're going to say... "You must of had morals before then..."

I did, and I can only guess where they came from...

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

Toby
Noone deserves to have their life taken from them, regardless of their past, or the acts they've commited.
That's just my opinion though...
So no, I woudldn't call you inhumane for holding that sort of opinion, I would call you free.

Have you ever stopped to think that a prison sentence is a worse sentence than death?

Inhumane thoughts can save humanity while humane thoughts can lead to it's destruction.


Emotionally, in Britain every time there is a cold-blooded murder public support for the death penalty rises, sometimes to 92%.
The same with me, I don't like to admit it, but when I heard that Eugène Terre'Blanche had been murdered I couldn't help but feel the world was a little safer.

I would call you inhumane if you were to kill someone, but not for having an opinion, albeit one I diagree with.

Logic v Morality?
The majority of the world choose morality.


I'm don't care about punishment. I'm all about prevention. I don't care to stop a killer from killing twice. Simply kill him and be done with that. You ever seen a real prison? You don't send people there to rehabilitated. You fool. Your punishment jet makes them worse people. Instead kill them and let their death be a demonstration of what happens to murderers.

Extreme consequences for extreme people.

I know the mind of a psychopath. You do not. I know what works and what doesn't. Punishment won't change the behaviors. Once somene goes bad you put them down.

Honestly, I don't believe democracies are capable of advancing society at a rapid rate because they lack long term leaders. But people can't be trusted with power. Look at the Queen of England. Some woman held up like a false idol.

I laugh at Toby. He worships a false idol and claims to be a christian. Cause thats what the Queen is.. a false idol. Sitting in your money and in your homes for you to worship. Taking focus away from your God and redirecting it to the crown.

Something I see clear as day. Something a brainwashed Brit could never get.

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

Whitewolf - Again, you're thinking in the mind of a Psychopath.
I don't know how it 'feels' but I can comprehend how your mind works. But you cannot do the same with us.

We have different opinions, they're both valuable. Done.

laugh at Toby. He worships a false idol and claims to be a christian. Cause thats what the Queen is.. a false idol. Sitting in your money and in your homes for you to worship. Taking focus away from your God and redirecting it to the crown.

Something I see clear as day. Something a brainwashed Brit could never get.


What the hell? You think I worship the Queen? You think I pray to or visit churches that worship the Queen?

I don't worship the Queen of England, I have pride in our monarchy, but I do not worship her.

"Sitting in money"? Yes, because the Queen is a billionaire. -_-
You aren't a Christian, nor are you British, so you cannot really make much of an informed decision, or even take an educated guess.

I'm sitting here laughing at your two uses of "worship" and your three uses of "false idol".

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

Toby
Whitewolf - Again, you're thinking in the mind of a Psychopath.
I don't know how it 'feels' but I can comprehend how your mind works. But you cannot do the same with us.

We have different opinions, they're both valuable. Done.

laugh at Toby. He worships a false idol and claims to be a christian. Cause thats what the Queen is.. a false idol. Sitting in your money and in your homes for you to worship. Taking focus away from your God and redirecting it to the crown.

Something I see clear as day. Something a brainwashed Brit could never get.


What the hell? You think I worship the Queen? You think I pray to or visit churches that worship the Queen?

I don't worship the Queen of England, I have pride in our monarchy, but I do not worship her.

"Sitting in money"? Yes, because the Queen is a billionaire. -_-
You aren't a Christian, nor are you British, so you cannot really make much of an informed decision, or even take an educated guess.

I'm sitting here laughing at your two uses of "worship" and your three uses of "false idol".


I once asked Toby a question. If the Queen ordered you to kill 10,000 people... would you do it? He answered yes.

The Queen. A person of no significants yet lives like a God is percieved to. She is ruler over all she sees and everyone is her loyal subject. Because it's a great honor to have the queen even acknowledge your existance. Cause she is held up high. The British pride themselves on this. A Pride which is also a written sin.

If it takes great focus away from God.. it is a sin. It being something or someone. Because God is never second to anyone or anything. Not even the Queen of England.

I am not a Christian because of my loyalty to God over The Crown? I think not. I would never allow any one person to have such power over me that I would commit genocide against ten thousand. But you would.

Explain yourself. Where does national pride end? How many would you kill for the Queen of England? Hundred thousand? What about a million or millions. Afterall what's a million after you kill ten thousand.

Do tell me about your false God and how you would kill for her because of pride. It fits the definition of a false God to me.

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

If I had to choose between killing the Queen Of England or killing two homeless people I would choose the Queen.
I respect her, and have great pride in her, but I don't give anymore value to here life than I do yours.

I said I would kill the 10,000 because my wife was dying, and my children's lives were in danger.
What does that tell you? I love my wife and kids more than I respect the Queen.
That's it though, I respect her, and I have pride in her, I don't worship her.
Ever picked up a bible and had a read?
Idolotry is defined as the worship of any image, idea or object as opposed to God.
How many times do it need say it? I DON'T WORSHIP THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND

Tell me, besides baseless arguments, why do you dislike our Queen?

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

You're doubling back on statements you've already made.

Toby, the mere fact that I could get you to commit genocide to save your own family... is sad, unwise and dangerous. A person of such mentality should never be given power over the lives of others.

It's just my proof that your kind are all ugly inside. You'd all feed on eachother given enough emotional disturbance. Really not that much at all. How can I trust such a creature? Such a conditional creature. You really can't. Well not fully.

Thats why no matter how dissapointed I am in people.. it's not the end of the world for me. Like it is for you. Oh my family is away and I am alone. Sympathy please..

Pride is ignorant. Monarchys are relics of the midevil world. What purpose does your monad by serve besides national pride/looking stupid to the rest of the world? Do you think we are impressed?! We've never been impressed.

Also it's funny to ask an American why they don't like anything at all about England. We live a.. different way than you. We aren't loyal fools. Thats what makes us... US.

Btw. LOL @ u getting angry. I don't care about your queen... but you do. Don't you pride boy.

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

You've obviously never experience true love if you wouldn't do anything to save the one you love with all your heart.

No matter what you do, no matter what you say, I refuse to drop to your level.
I am not going to argue with you, it's not enjoyable, and doesn't get anyone anywhere.

I don't think I've ever met an American who doesn't like Britain... And I've met alot of Americans...
I don't have anything bad to say about them, we secretly mock some of them when they leave the office, but that's not because they're American, it's because they're stupid.
It's funny how you talk for your entire nation.

Our 'kind' live in harmony, look at the lives of your average psychopath, alone, unloved, uncared for and then look at ours, or even mine.
I never would've dreamed of becoming what I am today, and of having two wonderful children with my equally wonderful wife. :)

Mock me, argue with me, whatever, you can't penetrate my British Charm... ;)
And you'll never take down my pride, try as you may.

PS.
Sympathy for you? No.
Empathic Concern*? Yes! (*You might need a dictionary)
LOL :-)

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

Was it the first Rob Zombie Halloween or the Second one? Micheal Myers as a child is my sons best friends clone. No lie.. He sort of gave us the creeps for awhile. :)

I live in a state where they "use" the death penalty. The first time I knew that some one was going to be executed I couldn't sleep. They used to do them a minute after midnight. It honestly made me physically sick knowing this was going to happen. So many what if's?

Now if I were to personally witness a person doing these horrid things to an innocent person. I would have to agree they should be taken out. In some instances lethal injection is to easy for the pain they have inflicted. Lethal injection is morally correct supposedly and humane.

So I think I just contradicted myself in this post!! lol Hey man, I'm a women!! lol

Re: Anyone who thinks they can better define a 'conscience' is welcome to give it a go...

Beheading, hanging, lethal injection, they can all go wrong. And they can all be used on innocent people - and they have been before, many times. For people who support the death penalty, that one fact should be what puts them off the idea. Innocent people losing their lives for the crimes they didn't commit.

Saudi Arabia - It still uses crucifixion. In the 21st century. Makes you sick doesn't it?
The Death Penalty is a barbaric act which has somehow managed to survive well into the 21st century.

I know how you must of felt, I made sure I was awake at 03:04 in the morning, much to the annoyance of my wife, so I could be up at the same time a British man with Bipolar Disorder was being beheaded in China because two men told him if he smuggled drugs into China, he would "save the world".

I am willing to bet my opinions would change if someone killed or tried to kill my wife, family or children.