Return to Website

SunnyDay's Message Board

Hi! Welcome to my message board! Use it to contact me or others or to post questions and share ideas and experiences. The topic should always be related to nudism / naturism. Feel free to respond to posts from others in a respectful way if you have something helpful or meaningful to contribute. Let's keep it light, lively, and most of all, fun! Thanks!

SunnyDay's Message Board
Start a New Topic 
Author
Comment
Why not?

I've "officially" been a nudist for about five years, but I've always preferred nude to clothes. And for my entire conscious life, I've wondered why others don't feel the same way. I've had different theories through the years, but I wanted to see if you guys had any. Figured I might learn something.

My best theory so far is that naturists tend to view their bodies as whole and complete, not needing anything else added to them to be full, normal and functional, whereas most textiles feel almost as if they're not fully human without their clothes on, if that makes any sense. It seems sometimes like textiles see their clothes as their skin, and naturists see their skin as their clothes. Am I crazy?

Re: Why not?

Possibly because it is confining rather than liberating. You have to live behind closed doors, drawn blinds and fences. Do otherwise and you're in trouble.

Thoreau actually referred to the shirt as something like a second skin, like the bark of a tree, something common everywhere all over the world and without it, the same as the bark on a tree, people would wither and die. But I think he was overthinking it.

Likewise, people have said they wonder why other people wear clothes and go into great detail about the expense and bother with expensive and (even) complicated clothes. While that may be a legitimate question and believe me, was asked before any of us were born, unless you're over 90. It just might be possible that most people do not in fact wear expensive, complicated clothes but cheap simple clothes about which they don't give a second thought. Just don't overthink the matter or worry about what other people think.

Re: Why not?

I discovered the pleasure of nudity in the 1950s at my all-boys’ boarding high school, where it was mandatory to swim naked (except during open days and at competitions). Much later, I discovered the internet had copious information and my interest was rekindled, about 1998. I re-developed and recovered the mind set and on vacation by myself in Spain, discovered the pleasures of CO beaches and a campground. Now, I seek out places where I can go to be nude, for my comfort and pleasure. I have enjoyed 'resorts' where clothing is required only in the restaurant (why?); I have enjoyed more a few places, a campground and those Spanish beaches, where clothing is not required at all.

To answer the question 'why not?', because ...
• Society needs/wants us to wear clothes much of the time, and we comply;
• It is too cold much of the time (where I live) to do without clothes;
• In some cases, protective clothing is a requirement (welding, frying bacon).

Re: Why not?

CalgaryMark
To answer the question 'why not?', because ...
• Society needs/wants us to wear clothes much of the time, and we comply


You're right, but people respond differently to that need by society for us to be "properly clothed."

This morning I was looking at the portfolio of a friend who does wedding, engagement, and couples photography. Like most photographers in that genre, she (and yes, the "she" is important here) wants to make her photographic subjects look their best while bringing out their personalities.

Couples are different, and that means the photos are different. Some couples have pictures in fields full of flowers. Others have pictures on beaches or standing in water. Still others are shown in gritty urban street scenes, where their physical beauty and strikingly colorful clothing sets off a marked contrast with a gray or dark streetscape of concrete or steel or even dirt and graffiti. All the couples are clearly in love -- after all, showing the love between a man and woman is the main story of engagement, wedding, and couples photography -- but each couple shows their love differently.

A Chinese woman I know has a formal portrait in that portfolio of her and her American fiance. She's sitting in a chair wearing a silk blouse buttoned all the way to the neck and a skirt that even when she's sitting with crossed legs doesn't come above her knees. Her fiance is standing behind her in a shirt, tie, and slacks, with the only contact between them being his hand on her shoulder.

Another set of engagement photos is of a Hispanic couple I knew who are clearly and joyfully showing their love. He's wearing a loose-fitting shirt and jeans; she's wearing a blouse, skirt and heels. In the first photo, he's holding her several feet off the ground as the setting sun shows through the thin fabric of her skirt. In another photo, they're locked in a tight embrace. In a third photo, he's hugging her from behind in a position that tightly presses her blouse against her body and shows off her figure quite well.

Nobody would guess it from the photos, but the Chinese-American couple has been living together for several years. They are very physically and emotionally expressive of their love, and with close friends they act like any other American couple with hugs and kisses, but nothing in public beyond handholding, and certainly not in a formal engagement photo that will be seen by her family and friends. The Hispanic couple, by contrast, are "cradle Catholics" and quite dedicated to "save it for later," though they clearly love to hug and kiss and show their affection in public.

A third photo set shows a Hispanic couple in a gritty urban streetscape. He's wearing a sleeveless T-shirt that shows off his well-defined muscles along with some military and bodybuilding tattoos, and she's wearing tight jeans, heels, and a T-shirt with a V-neck that shows the top of her cleavage and is just tight enough to show she's not wearing a bra. Some of the photos show them holding hands, others walking down the street, and one with him backing her up to a graffiti-painted wall and giving her a kiss. All the photos clearly contrast her beauty to the surrounding grittiness, especially in that last photo, the photographer was able to make his tattoos and ripped jeans look like they fit into the graffiti-sprayed wall, while her white T-shirt and dressy jeans and smooth skin make her stand out quite dramatically from the wall against which her fiance is pressing her.

In all the photos, everyone is wearing clothes. The right things are covered up for all six people, though the second Hispanic woman deliberately pushed the edges by not wearing a bra under her shirt, and the photographer caught a shot of the first Hispanic woman wearing what would ordinarily be a long and modest skirt, but with the sunset behind her, showed that the lovely figure shown off by her form-fitting blouse is matched by shapely legs concealed by her skirt.

That female photographer wanted to capture the personalities of all three couples and she did so. The only skin shown by the Chinese-American couple was between her hem and her heels, and even that was almost certainly pantyhose, though a close observer would note that her legs showed she's an athletic young woman. The second Hispanic couple wanted to show off their bodies, including his muscles, but in a way that meets society's rules. The most modest of the three couples turned out to have the "sexiest" photo in that whole group. I asked her why she selected that photo, and she said the photo illustrated that she has something waiting for her husband and for marriage, covering just enough to be proper while revealing just enough to show something exciting underneath.

Those are three of many examples showing how we use clothes to conceal and to reveal, to attract and to cover up.

We send mixed messages all the time with clothes.

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny's comments about wedding photography brought this to my mind. My wife and I were married in Scotland and the lady photographer who took our pictures (not this one, and neither of us is in the photographs, so far as I know) recently sent us this short video:
https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/jLI6VA40oUs?autoplay=1&vq=hd720&rel=0&showinfo=0&start=0&end.

Now, getting back on track...

Re: Why not?

CalgaryMark
BeachBunny's comments about wedding photography brought this to my mind. My wife and I were married in Scotland and the lady photographer who took our pictures (not this one, and neither of us is in the photographs, so far as I know) recently sent us this short video:
https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/jLI6VA40oUs?autoplay=1&vq=hd720&rel=0&showinfo=0&start=0&end.

Now, getting back on track...
Very funny video! Thanks for that!

Re: Why not?

Beach Bunny's posts are so thorough and thoughtful, I am almost embarrassed to even attempt a post following hers.

Re: Why not?

BlueTrain
Beach Bunny's posts are so thorough and thoughtful, I am almost embarrassed to even attempt a post following hers.
Agreed!

Re: Why not?

NakedG
BlueTrain
Beach Bunny's posts are so thorough and thoughtful, I am almost embarrassed to even attempt a post following hers.
Agreed!


Thanks but I don't think I deserve the compliments. I actually posted three things that day, and later deleted two of them. This third one only survived because I hit the wrong button and since the one-hour limit had passed I could no longer delete it.

For those who may want to know in the future, when the one-hour limit has passed, if the post is still on the screen, you can still edit or delete, but if you want to delete, you have to first hit "edit" and make a minor change. That resets the clock to 59 minutes. Then you can make more changes or delete the post entirely. But you have to hit "edit" first and only then hit "delete." Trying to delete a post more than one hour old without editing first won't work.

This method of editing posts more than an hour old ONLY works if the post is still on your screen with the hotlink at the end for editing or deleting still present. If you refresh your screen and the hotlink is gone, it's too late.

Re: Why not?

For those who may have been wondering, I'm reposting below is the core of one of my deleted posts from last week. I have eliminated an entire section that came after where this now ends.

I originally said that I know some women don't think the way I described. I gave an example of a woman I know who is very confident and comfortable with her body, and then several other couples who send messages with their choice of clothes which may be very different from how they actually live their lives. One couple lived together for two years but had an extremely modest engagement photo with a stiff pose in formal clothing. Another couple, while completely committed to "save it for later," lives in a warm part of the country and they often wear loose fitting clothing which reveals a lot of their bodies, and are very expressive of their love in hugging and kissing, and it shows in their engagement photos.

I really ought to ask for these people's permission before posting about them, even if they're anonymous.

The main woman in my deleted post is now married, and when I went to her Facebook page to send her a message, I saw numerous photos of her hugging her boyfriend/fiance/husband (the same guy -- their relationship progressed from dating to engagement to marriage) and decided it might not be the best time to ask for permission to post about her carefree and uninhibited time swimming nude with us. I'll probably ask her the next time she comes swimming with us once the water warms up, if she comes. We haven't talked since early fall when she last came to one of our swims.

CJM
I've "officially" been a nudist for about five years, but I've always preferred nude to clothes. And for my entire conscious life, I've wondered why others don't feel the same way. I've had different theories through the years, but I wanted to see if you guys had any. Figured I might learn something.

My best theory so far is that naturists tend to view their bodies as whole and complete, not needing anything else added to them to be full, normal and functional, whereas most textiles feel almost as if they're not fully human without their clothes on, if that makes any sense. It seems sometimes like textiles see their clothes as their skin, and naturists see their skin as their clothes. Am I crazy?


I've been thinking about your post for a few days. I think maybe there's a difference between how men and women feel about nudity because there's a difference between how men and women feel about clothes.

I wouldn't go so far as to say women see clothing as part of their skin, but I would say many women see clothing as a bigger part of their identity than most men do.

Men pay less attention to clothing, and when they do pay attention, it's usually for utilitarian reasons -- wearing what's appropriate for physical work, or maybe the right suit and tie for a professional office environment.

Women also wear clothing appropriate for the situation, aprons being an obvious example which women are more likely than men to wear while cooking to protect their clothes, but there's much more to it. Women select clothing partly for modesty purposes, and partly to attract people's eyes. Partly we want people to look and partly we want protection from those looks. That's complicated and full of mixed motivations. We're glad when men notice us, but not glad when they look at us a little too long. A quick compliment causes a smile but a long leer turns our face into a frown.

Does that make sense? Not really.

All those mixed messages we receive growing up makes taking off our clothes much harder and more emotional for women. We give up the protection of our clothes when we take them off, and also give up a tool many of us use to send a message about ourselves.

Re: Why not?

Again, another good and thoughtful post. Nothing like mine at all. It really isn't easy making a good post on a forum, seeing as how it is usually written off the cuff and relying totally on memory for details sometimes. It's rare that any post rises to the level of a term paper, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I mentioned in some other post, which I did not follow up on, about a book on early nudism in Germany (where else?) and how the term included nudists, hikers and conservationists. The book is very scholarly and although not really that thick, includes about 1/4 of the book in references and footnotes. Anyway, it is so scholarly that it almost never really gets into the subjects, mostly talking about the organizations and people involved in the movements.

Your posts, Beach Bunny, deserve good replies but I'm afraid that I need more time to compose my thoughts and put them on paper first.

Re: Why not?

Here's the rest of what I posted to CalgaryMark and then deleted.

CalgaryMark
I have enjoyed 'resorts' where clothing is required only in the restaurant (why?);


Often it's health regulations. Cleaning up a plastic pool chair on which someone has been sitting and sweating for several hours is easier than cleaning up a restaurant chair or booth that's been in contact with a naked customer's body. A quick hose-down is realistic for a chair by a pool, but not inside a restaurant. Also, when food is involved there can be significant concerns by health agencies about potential contact between hands and parts of the body that are normally covered by clothes. Maybe those concerns are overblown. I've never heard of food poisoning being more common at nudist resorts. Still, a resort has to follow the same health rules as any other private club serving food and it's probably best not to risk extra attention by inspectors worried about naked waitresses, servers, or cooks, or sometimes even customers.

CalgaryMark
I discovered the pleasure of nudity in the 1950s at my all-boys’ boarding high school, where it was mandatory to swim naked (except during open days and at competitions). Much later, I discovered the internet had copious information and my interest was rekindled, about 1998. I re-developed and recovered the mind set and on vacation by myself in Spain, discovered the pleasures of CO beaches and a campground. Now, I seek out places where I can go to be nude, for my comfort and pleasure.... I have enjoyed more a few places, a campground and those Spanish beaches, where clothing is not required at all.


I've said before that I feel society lost something when nude swimming stopped being normal for men. In 1960s with all the talk of permissiveness and equality, why couldn't we have moved toward giving women the option of swimming nude in the women-only swim sessions, just like men were already swimming nude?

I understand the problems with forcing nudity on young people whose bodies are just beginning to develop. I realize mandatory nude swimming, and even mandatory nude showers, ended for a reason.

I can see not forcing women to swim nude like the men were forced, but I feel it would have helped women, even those who didn't choose to swim nude, to get a realistic idea of what actual women look like without their clothes, rather than airbrushed models and actresses whose bodies cannot be even an aspirational goal for all but a tiny minority of women.

Since posting and deleting an earlier version of this, I've talked with my husband to get more of a male perspective. CalgaryMark, you said you "seek out places where I can go to be nude, for my comfort and pleasure."

My husband wants to comment on both the comfort and the pleasure parts of nudity.

First, on the pleasure part, he confirmed it's true that for guys in high school, seeing women showering, especially their female friends from class, is a big part of male fantasies. He tells me that's less true for men in college since by that time many men, probably most, have spent significant time nude with girlfriends.

That's another good argument for encouraging people to spend more time nude together. My husband says when we first started visiting the nude beach near our college, he worried how he'd react when seeing female friends nude, but after actually undressing with female friends, he realized much of his interest in their bodies was wondering what they'd look like without their clothes. Once the whole "forbidden fruit" thing was over and he'd seen them nude and they'd seen him nude, he realized women's clothes and swimsuits are designed to attract men's eyes. Full nudity is less exciting than a bikini.

After the initial excitement of seeing a friend undress -- let's be honest, men and women are designed to enjoy each others' bodies, and it is exciting to see someone go through the embarrassment of undressing for the first time -- men and women pretty quickly get used to seeing each other, calm down, and just get comfortable enjoying the feeling of water and warm breezes and sunshine on our bodies.

With time, what starts as pleasure turns into comfort.

That's true not only with social nudity but also marital nudity. Every couple starts out with strong sexual passion when they see each other's nude bodies. If they don't, something is wrong.

But now that we've been married for a while, my husband I can sit on the sofa for hours nude watching movies and eating pizza without considering sex. Certainly cuddling nude together feels great, but it's the comfort of being close to each other with nothing between us, not raw sexual desire.

I think something similar happens with social nudity as people get used to being nude with people who are close friends but with whom they're not going to have a physical relationship.

Re: Why not?

BlueTrain
Again, another good and thoughtful post. Nothing like mine at all. It really isn't easy making a good post on a forum, seeing as how it is usually written off the cuff and relying totally on memory for details sometimes. It's rare that any post rises to the level of a term paper, which is not necessarily a bad thing. I mentioned in some other post, which I did not follow up on, about a book on early nudism in Germany (where else?) and how the term included nudists, hikers and conservationists. The book is very scholarly and although not really that thick, includes about 1/4 of the book in references and footnotes. Anyway, it is so scholarly that it almost never really gets into the subjects, mostly talking about the organizations and people involved in the movements.

Your posts, Beach Bunny, deserve good replies but I'm afraid that I need more time to compose my thoughts and put them on paper first.


Thanks, BlueTrain.

The old phrase is true that a picture is worth a thousand words. The same is true of "word pictures," which is what I try to "paint" here in these posts. I want people to be able to read my posts and through my words to "see" my friends, the beach near our college, the beach we now visit, and how people feel and respond to social nudity.

I think the difference between a scholarly book and a personal narrative is sort of like the difference between autopsy photos and photos of a couple on a beach.

Hear me out. Not trying to be morbid.

A set of autopsy photos will go into precise clinical detail documenting the state of a person's body, not only to show the organs but also to give the proof necessary to document the coroner's determination of the cause of death.

The beach photos also show a lot of detail, but of a living, breathing person. Instead of coldly and clinically documenting the person, the beach photo will warmly and lively show, with lots of details including lighting, shadows, clothing, towels, umbrellas, etc., not only what the person looks like but also how the person feels.

Detail is important in both types of photos. But the details are very different because they serve a different purpose.

On Germany: From what I read on nudist message boards, it sounds like for people of an older generation, sometimes their first experience with social nudity was visiting a nude beach while in the army in Europe. I wonder if that's a hidden story that should get more attention than it does.

This is only a guess since I don't know too many people who have been in the army, but several people I knew in college who didn't at all seem like "the nudist type" (whatever that means) but liked coming to our nude beach were people who grew up in military families and had been introduced to nude beaches while their families were in Europe. I'm thinking of one woman in particular who I never would have expected would be interested in social nudity. When I saw her at our beach, I walked over and started talking. She had started going topless in Germany, got the courage to move up to full nudity while on vacation in France, and had been enjoying fully nude sunbathing for several years.

She said this: "BeachBunny, when you're on a beach and all your friends are teasing the 'American prude' because of your swimsuit, sooner or later you get tired of the teasing and decide it's easier to take it off."

Re: Why not?

I spent two years in Germany when I was in the army and my son spent one year in Germany in the army (his second year was spent in Iraq) and even my daughter spent two years in Germany. None of us went to the beach, however. I went to Berlin and several places in Bavaria. My son went to the Netherlands and my daughter went to France. We even visited her and went to France, too. We intended to visit one of the D-day beaches in Normandy but couldn't even get close to the beach for the traffic. So that's our story.

My wife, however, did a grand tour of Europe after college and visited beaches wherever she could. In Denmark, she was only "topless." None of the other beaches, I think in Greece or Italy was nude or topless. But that was in the 1970s. All the talk about nude beaches in Europe is somewhat exaggerated, just like saying that all women in the United States wear bikinis, which is certainly not true. In fact, when I was there, Germany was quite conservative, meaning less casual as far as public appearances go, generally speaking. We were even expected to dress up when we went out in public. Berlin, though, was different and always has been.

I understand that today, there is some resistance or objection to nudity along the northern coast of Germany on the Baltic and the North Sea. So one should be a little cautious when you hear claims about nudity in Europe. They are certainly more relaxed about nudity or near nudity than Americans might be but there's more to the story than that. By the way, if you ever have a chance to visit the seashore in Germany, by all means do so. But take a sweater with you.

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny


But now that we've been married for a while, my husband I can sit on the sofa for hours nude watching movies and eating pizza without considering sex. Certainly cuddling nude together feels great, but it's the comfort of being close to each other with nothing between us, not raw sexual desire.

I think something similar happens with social nudity as people get used to being nude with people who are close friends but with whom they're not going to have a physical relationship.


This is one of the things my reluctant wife has mentioned as a reason not to join me. She wants me to continue to have the sexual attraction and passion when I see her nude and not to make it so commonplace that I don't react. While her main reasons are more about physical discomfort and just not wanting anyone (even our kids preferably) seeing her, I wonder if I should thank her for keeping her body special.

Re: Why not?

BlueTrain
My wife, however, did a grand tour of Europe after college and visited beaches wherever she could. In Denmark, she was only "topless." None of the other beaches, I think in Greece or Italy was nude or topless. But that was in the 1970s. All the talk about nude beaches in Europe is somewhat exaggerated, just like saying that all women in the United States wear bikinis, which is certainly not true.


That makes sense. Saying nudity is more common in Europe, and more acceptable, is not like saying everyone goes nude.

BlueTrain
I understand that today, there is some resistance or objection to nudity along the northern coast of Germany on the Baltic and the North Sea. So one should be a little cautious when you hear claims about nudity in Europe. They are certainly more relaxed about nudity or near nudity than Americans might be but there's more to the story than that. By the way, if you ever have a chance to visit the seashore in Germany, by all means do so. But take a sweater with you.


Sounds about right. Wreck Beach in Vancouver probably isn't very nice without a sweater in the fall or spring, or in the winter without a coat. Wreck is not Black's Beach, and neither of them are Haulover.

Doug B.
BeachBunny


But now that we've been married for a while, my husband I can sit on the sofa for hours nude watching movies and eating pizza without considering sex. Certainly cuddling nude together feels great, but it's the comfort of being close to each other with nothing between us, not raw sexual desire.

I think something similar happens with social nudity as people get used to being nude with people who are close friends but with whom they're not going to have a physical relationship.


This is one of the things my reluctant wife has mentioned as a reason not to join me. She wants me to continue to have the sexual attraction and passion when I see her nude and not to make it so commonplace that I don't react. While her main reasons are more about physical discomfort and just not wanting anyone (even our kids preferably) seeing her, I wonder if I should thank her for keeping her body special.


Well... every person is different but my husband certainly doesn't have a problem being attracted to me when that's what we both want to happen. We still have many times when cuddling turns into more than cuddling and we think that's great.

We usually sleep naked, which many non-nudist couples also do, and we don't think that's harmed our romantic life at all. Like most married couples, sometimes the smallest things get us "in the mood." Maybe he'll accidentally brush against one of my nipples, leading me to kiss him, which leads to more. Maybe he'll change positions, he'll brush his privates against the sheet or against my leg, and he'll quickly get aroused, give me a hug, and that leads to more.

Since we don't have a non-nudist past to compare ourselves to what we would have been like as a non-nudist married couple, we don't have any way to know how these spontaneous interactions between us as a nude couple would compare to a textile couple in which the husband says, for example, "Honey, I really want to take off that blouse."

I don't talk too much about our personal romantic life with friends unless they are close friends, but from conversations with those friends who are close, I think being nude together most of the time when we are home together leads to more romantic time together, not less. At least for us, the brushed nipple or touched sheet and many other unplanned cases of body contact which wouldn't happen as much if we weren't nude most of our time together at home, lead to many more opportunities for romantic interaction than we would have if we were wearing clothes most of our time together.

Re: Why not?

Doug B.
BeachBunny


But now that we've been married for a while, my husband I can sit on the sofa for hours nude watching movies and eating pizza without considering sex. Certainly cuddling nude together feels great, but it's the comfort of being close to each other with nothing between us, not raw sexual desire.

I think something similar happens with social nudity as people get used to being nude with people who are close friends but with whom they're not going to have a physical relationship.


This is one of the things my reluctant wife has mentioned as a reason not to join me. She wants me to continue to have the sexual attraction and passion when I see her nude and not to make it so commonplace that I don't react. While her main reasons are more about physical discomfort and just not wanting anyone (even our kids preferably) seeing her, I wonder if I should thank her for keeping her body special.


Everybody's different, and different things work for different couples - but I want to make sure you think through this situation and decide if there isn't some objectification going on. My wife had a similar attitude, but I didn't tolerate it for long, because I eventually realized was that she wasn't simply asking me to "keep her body special" by hiding it - we were jointly objectifying her. While it could be argued that being her husband gives me the right to view her that way, I felt like the reactionary sort of attraction that was going on came too near objectification for me to treat it like a good thing.

I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong - after all, I only about 0.01% of what's going on. There's a LOT more to a relationship than what I'm talking about. But like I said, take a close look at what she's asking of you and decide for yourself if it is or isn't objectification. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But, in my experience, it is.

Just my three cents... Peace!

Re: Why not?

Thanks to both Beachbunny and CJM. Your responses are both right to the point and worth some reflection. I'll leave it at that so I don't drag this thread in a wrong direction.

Re: Why not?

CJM
Everybody's different, and different things work for different couples - but I want to make sure you think through this situation and decide if there isn't some objectification going on. My wife had a similar attitude, but I didn't tolerate it for long, because I eventually realized was that she wasn't simply asking me to "keep her body special" by hiding it - we were jointly objectifying her. While it could be argued that being her husband gives me the right to view her that way, I felt like the reactionary sort of attraction that was going on came too near objectification for me to treat it like a good thing.

I'm not saying what you're doing is wrong - after all, I only about 0.01% of what's going on. There's a LOT more to a relationship than what I'm talking about. But like I said, take a close look at what she's asking of you and decide for yourself if it is or isn't objectification. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. But, in my experience, it is.

Just my three cents... Peace!


Mmmmm.... I think we all agree that different things work differently for different couples. But don't we all agree that sexual desire is a good thing inside a marriage? I want my husband to desire me. He wants me to desire him. Does that make me a "sex object?" Well, at the time that he's looking at me "that way," yes, and I like it!

Of course that raw sexual desire has no place on a beach. Its place is in the bedroom (or somewhere else private between a husband and wife). In the proper place, it's good. It doesn't really make much difference if I'm wearing a silk blouse or a bikini or completely naked. Physical desire happens between husbands and wives and we want it to happen.

I wrote some things earlier that I decided not to post on this page because they cross a line that goes beyond alluding to sexual desire, and I think I was right in not writing them here, but every married couple wants them to happen -- or should.

For a textile couple, I think the physical experience of a husband unbuttoning his wife's blouse, unhooking his wife's bra, and pulling down her skirt is important. I think couples considering nudism need to be reassured that those experiences will continue -- in our case, after we both come home from work and get undressed, that undressing often ends in the bedroom. No matter how many times a nudist husband sees his wife naked, he's still going to be attracted to her nude body. I can say for me, even though I've seen my husband nude many times and sometimes spent a week or more nude with him, I almost always enjoy it when I see his body responding to me and I hope that never changes.

I think that is what Doug was saying he and his wife want to avoid losing in their marriage. I think there are many wives who fear that their husbands will lose interest in them physically if they get used to seeing lots of other women without clothes.

That is completely different from how we look at friends on a beach or in a pool or swimming together. Married couples need to be assured that just as a man who regularly works with attractive women isn't going to lose interest in his wife, a man who regularly goes to a nude beach with his wife isn't going to lose interest in his wife just because there are other attractive nude women there.

People do look at nude beaches. There's no point in denying that, particularly for those new to nudism. But it doesn't lead to a lack of interest in the bedroom, or at least it shouldn't.

Re: Why not?

Since this was originally CJM's thread, I want to go back to his post, here:

CJM
My best theory so far is that naturists tend to view their bodies as whole and complete, not needing anything else added to them to be full, normal and functional, whereas most textiles feel almost as if they're not fully human without their clothes on, if that makes any sense. It seems sometimes like textiles see their clothes as their skin, and naturists see their skin as their clothes. Am I crazy?


I think CJM's recent post about objectification helps me understand more about what he meant by his first post.

From my experience, the typical single man (yes, we all know there are exceptions) is extremely interested in women's bodies, seeing them as object of desire. Many women understand that and use that. As a result, all sorts of things happen between men and women that are not good.

Men learn pretty quickly that while women may use their clothes and their makeup and body-toning exercise routines to attract men, even the women who focus the most on their looks to attract guys are doing that to attract a guy into a long-term relationship for which her looks are only one part. "Ditzy blonde" stereotypes abound, but in the real world, even the most emptyheaded beach blondes are using their looks as a means to an end, to attract and keep a man for a long-term relationship.

Most men figure out sooner or later, sometimes after a lot of broken relationships, that the women worth keeping are those who are committed to finding a man they love, and that looks are far from the most important thing in building a dating relationship, let alone marriage.

If CJM's point about "objectification" is that men shouldn't view women purely as sex objects -- well, duh! Of course I agree with that. Most women have more than their looks to offer, and in our culture, nearly all women, even the most attractive women, want men to want them for more than their beauty. I'm successful in my career, most people consider me smart, and I want to be recognized for those accomplishments, not just my looks.

But that doesn't mean I don't want my husband to view me as an object of his desire in the right place and the right time. In the right place and right time, I want him to be passionately interested in my body.

Part of why nudism was so hard for me at first was that like a lot of girls and young women, I had a fantasy wedding planned out in my mind where I'd have a beautiful wedding dress, a beautiful wedding, and then on my wedding night I'd enjoy my new husband slowly unbuttoning my clothes and I'd fall into his nude arms with my own nude body, enjoying the physical pleasures of our wedding night.

Undressing in a college dorm room with my boyfriend and being led into a shower in preparation for visiting a nude beach was NOT part of my plans. I was on the verge of tears as I undressed with him, and only our love for each other and mutual trust helped me go through with it. Yes, the nude shower and making out nude felt very good, but I also felt very, very guilty, feeling this was something "nice girls" simply did not do.

The pleasure of the nude beach visit eventually overcame that guilt as I came to understand that nudity does not have to lead to sex, but it was very hard and I don't think we can minimize the feelings women feel about such things.

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny
NakedG
BlueTrain
Beach Bunny's posts are so thorough and thoughtful, I am almost embarrassed to even attempt a post following hers.
Agreed!
Thanks but I don't think I deserve the compliments. I actually posted three things that day, and later deleted two of them. This third one only survived because I hit the wrong button and since the one-hour limit had passed I could no longer delete it.

For those who may want to know in the future, when the one-hour limit has passed, if the post is still on the screen, you can still edit or delete, but if you want to delete, you have to first hit "edit" and make a minor change. That resets the clock to 59 minutes. Then you can make more changes or delete the post entirely. But you have to hit "edit" first and only then hit "delete." Trying to delete a post more than one hour old without editing first won't work.

This method of editing posts more than an hour old ONLY works if the post is still on your screen with the hotlink at the end for editing or deleting still present. If you refresh your screen and the hotlink is gone, it's too late.
I KNEW I had seen the other posts! I was beginning to think I was losing my mind!
Thanks for the helpful tips! I've been on this site since the beginning and never knew those tricks.

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny
She said this: "Sunny, when you're on a beach and all your friends are teasing the 'American prude' because of your swimsuit, sooner or later you get tired of the teasing and decide it's easier to take it off."
Hmmm, has Sunny been present among us all this time? Are BeachBunny and Sunny one and the same? BeachBunny does write as eloquently as Sunny always did. Hmmm....

Re: Why not?

NakedG
I KNEW I had seen the other posts! I was beginning to think I was losing my mind! Thanks for the helpful tips! I've been on this site since the beginning and never knew those tricks.


Trial and error. I'm not a techie or computer expert by any means, but when I start getting to know a website that isn't one of the standard template-based sites like WordPress, I like to experiment and see what else I can do beyond the features that are obvious. A lot of the older or less-well-known blogging platforms have interesting and useful features that can be found if people take some time to hunt and experiment.

Think of it like the difference between name-brand food in the grocery store and artisan ingredients in a specialty store. WordPress is plain white bread. Nothing wrong, but what you see is what you get. I prefer buying specialized breads with nice crispy crusts and lots of different grains, and experimenting with different tastes and textures, not only for the ingredients of a sandwich, but also the bread.

You don't know what you'll get with a new type of bread until you try it out, and that's what I try to do on an unfamiliar blogging platform like this one.

Re: Why not?

NakedG
Hmmm, has Sunny been present among us all this time? Are BeachBunny and Sunny one and the same? BeachBunny does write as eloquently as Sunny always did. Hmmm....


No. Someone (maybe you) asked me the same question before. It was a simple typo -- BeachBunny was a nickname for me long ago but I don't usually use it anymore except here. I was thinking "Bunny" and typed "Sunny." I've fixed it.

I know Sunny only through what she writes. In some ways, she and I seem a lot alike, and it's what attracted me to this site when I read about it on other websites and saw links here. But in other ways we're different.

Just a few of those differences:

Sunny is willing to discuss her family and children, though she's careful. That's fine and her choice. I do not choose to discuss almost anything about children online, and long ago when my husband posted something on that subject, I insisted he delete it. I'm fine talking about that one-on-one with people I actually know, but I fear talking about that subject online risks attracting bad people we don't want to have around.

On the other hand, Sunny is very reserved about discussing her own sexuality. A few of her stories hint about things, but even there she's careful. I understand why, and I respect her for it. If we've got to make a mistake I'd rather be too cautious than too open. Out of respect to her I avoid talking about issues here which I am fairly free and open in discussing in person and online with people I know personally.

Let's be honest. If I am discussing a nude beach visit with a male friend and his girlfriend, the question of physical attraction will get asked. There's no point in avoiding it. My husband and I ask direct questions. One example: "Jim, we're sitting here on a Thursday night at Starbucks, and even here you've let your eyes wander down my blouse. Have you and Cindy thought through how both of you are going to feel Saturday morning at the beach when you watch me take off my blouse? And Cindy, you've told me Jim is the first man who has seen you nude. What are your plans to make sure you go through with taking off your swimsuit on Saturday when it's not just Jim and my husband, but also a group of your male friends enjoying watching you undress?"

Those discussions HAVE to happen in face-to-face visits with people new to nudism, but they don't have to be said online, at least not in detail.

Sunny and I probably share similar backgrounds and moral views. At least I think we do and that's what I like about her writing and why I come to this site. I knew in college that me and my boyfriend weren't the only nudists committed to personal purity, but we were almost the only ones on the beach to share our views, and still today most younger dating nudists we know don't agree with us. Back in college, my youth group leader had a long talk about the appropriateness of me still wearing my purity ring despite our beach visits. We agreed to disagree but she warned I was "playing with fire."

I'm not sure she was wrong. I've written before how my boyfriend (now husband) and I both badly wanted to marry while still in college. Our parents insisted we wait until graduation. We talked ourselves into thinking it was okay to take the final step one night since we were "all but married" and were frustrated with our parents telling us to wait. We were wrong and we now regret not waiting. Sunny and Brian succeeded where we failed.

If I actually were able to sit down and talk with Sunny, I'm not sure we actually disagree at all, just have different comfort levels about discussing something that is intensely personal. Perhaps it's a difference that Sunny's early experiences with social nudism after an initial beach visit were mostly resorts, which have VERY strict standards, and the private pool of a friend, while my early experiences were mostly a nude beach near my college with lots of younger people who go there specifically to see each other nude.

If Sunny and I disagree, and I'm not sure we do, it would be that I think an undercurrent of sexual interest is unavoidable with first-time nude beach visitors. I think it's best to manage that interest and work to direct it into appropriate outlets rather than try to deny it. In a college environment, the desire to see friends without their swimsuits attracts new people and younger people and I don't think that's bad. I do think letting that run uncontrolled risks turning beaches into places decent people don't want to go. The beach we loved in college is now getting a large gender imbalance toward men and if something isn't done to encourage more women to come, the whole beach dynamic may change in ways that would have kept me from coming as a young freshman college student.

So no, Sunny and I are not the same people. I think we mostly agree on many things, but maybe not all, and I want to respect Sunny's views on what is appropriate here and what is not.

Re: Why not?

I think you may have touched on a couple of things that have tended to destroy the nude beach environment both in this country and abroad. Too many people have taken the freedom of a nude beach and gone too far with licentious behaviour in public. And for that reason, conservative people never see that public nudity, which is what we're talking about, can be perfectly innocent.

It can be, can't it?

There are other factors, too. One is that there are alternatives to a nude beach in the United States, at least for those able to travel a little farther. There are clothing-optional resorts in the Caribbean where one can go to enjoy a "textile-fee" vacation, which reduces public pressure to have a legal nude beach in the states. After all, a trip to the beach is a big deal for people who don't live near the ocean and it's only a little further to places in the Caribbean.

Also, nude beaches may tend to be lumped in with all sorts of alternative lifestyles that more conservative, family-oriented people may wish to avoid. I doubt that children are bothered by very much of this but their parents probably would be and for that matter, so might some of those in alternative worlds. Anyway, just a few random thoughts.

Re: Why not?

BlueTrain
I think you may have touched on a couple of things that have tended to destroy the nude beach environment both in this country and abroad. Too many people have taken the freedom of a nude beach and gone too far with licentious behaviour in public.


We agree. Totally. That is the number one threat to public nude beaches staying open to nude recreation.

Most non-nudists don't mind a nude beach as long as it's somewhere they don't have to see it. That's fair. But when the nude beach turns into a magnet for illicit activity, the perception changes and police are asked to take action.

BlueTrain
And for that reason, conservative people never see that public nudity, which is what we're talking about, can be perfectly innocent. It can be, can't it?


Yes.

BlueTrain
There are other factors, too. One is that there are alternatives to a nude beach in the United States, at least for those able to travel a little farther. There are clothing-optional resorts in the Caribbean where one can go to enjoy a "textile-fee" vacation, which reduces public pressure to have a legal nude beach in the states. After all, a trip to the beach is a big deal for people who don't live near the ocean and it's only a little further to places in the Caribbean.


You're on to something here, but there's a contrary argument: Haulover seems to be doing well even though it's close to those Caribbean resorts. On the other hand, maybe that's the exception that proves the rule. Lots of Haulover visitors are flying to Florida from other parts of the United States. Maybe they fly to a Florida nude beach on vacation for the same reasons others might fly to a Caribbean nude beach on vacation.

BlueTrain
Also, nude beaches may tend to be lumped in with all sorts of alternative lifestyles that more conservative, family-oriented people may wish to avoid. I doubt that children are bothered by very much of this but their parents probably would be and for that matter, so might some of those in alternative worlds. Anyway, just a few random thoughts.


I try to avoid discussing this because some of those "alternative lifestyle" people are the bedrock support of existing nude beaches. I'm not complaining about them. They work hard to keep beaches clean and try to keep them family-friendly because they know the alternative is seeing the beach shut down.

Some of them have been coming to nude beaches longer than I have been alive and younger people need to thank them for fighting battles that got the beaches started for nude use decades ago.

But there are nude beaches that have turned into pickup places. There are nude beaches that have turned into markets for substances that until recently were illegal and some that still are.

Most non-nudists don't really mind if "aging hippies" have "a place they can hang out," as long as they don't have to see it. Most non-nudists don't mind a place for young people to take off their clothes and enjoy seeing each other -- and a lot of non-nudists secretly wish they had the courage to go there. I have little doubt that some of the gawkers who have taken photos of me have put their photos on sites that are visited by people who want to see the "truth of what 'XYZ' Beach is like." If people who don't visit end up thinking based on photos that the beach is full of young attractive women, that's not a totally bad thing.

What non-nudists do mind is a beach that gets a reputation for drug use and attracting "creepy old men."

I'm not saying older men aren't welcome. I'm saying old men who hit on younger women drive them away. It's not usually hard to tell the difference between an older retired man who has visited a beach for years and loves it for the same reasons I do, and an older man who is there for the wrong reasons.

When a beach gets to the point that older men are the vast majority of those on the beach, young people, not just younger women but also their boyfriends and other younger men, stop coming. That can kill a beach culture.

Re: Why not?

I can't believe how fast this thread is moving! I had a response quite a whie ago but lost it when our internet went down so it never got posted. So just a few quick observations as it is reflected in my life.

At one time my first wife and I did much the same as BeachBunny and her husband. We often came home from work and went straight to the bedroom to strip. Then we would prepare dinner, eat, clean up after, then cuddle on the couch watching TV. Sometime those sessions would lead to other things but more often after a day of work nothing much. After the birth of our child she began insisting we wear clothes all the time. I took it to mean her insecurities but it was part of a controlling behavior. She could then be the one to initiate sexual activity or at least control it by saying she was too tired to get undressed and redressed, too cold to be naked and "what if's" galore.

Second wife and we are naked at home quite often. Before we moved into our newest home we repainted the whole house, rented a carpet scrubber and cleaned before we moved furniture. All this was done naked and I must say clean up after was a treat' as Bunny mentioned those touches, cleaning each other in the shower after doing all that work. We have stayed naked 24/7 at home until some of her medical problems. So if it's cold or if the air conditioning gets to her she will wear something but I stay nude. Since retirement I have gone for days without wearing anything!

Being so far inland I seldom get to a beach, let alone a nude one but I take exception to the thought that beach pictures of young attractive women are such a good thing. To me it may send the message that slightly out of shape people are not welcome there. Or they may get ridiculed as not everyone understands that nudists are very welcoming despite body type.

Re: Why not?

nudewalker
I can't believe how fast this thread is moving! I had a response quite a whie ago but lost it when our internet went down so it never got posted. So just a few quick observations as it is reflected in my life. At one time my first wife and I did much the same as BeachBunny and her husband.


Thank you for your post!

nudewalker
Since retirement I have gone for days without wearing anything!


I know the feeling, not of retirement, but of spending days with no clothes. It's hard to explain how much better it is to be free of clothes not just for a few hours or for an evening and night but for days on end.

nudewalker
Being so far inland I seldom get to a beach, let alone a nude one but I take exception to the thought that beach pictures of young attractive women are such a good thing. To me it may send the message that slightly out of shape people are not welcome there. Or they may get ridiculed as not everyone understands that nudists are very welcoming despite body type.


Uh, oh... I see now I'd better make clear what I am NOT saying.

I definitely do NOT want to imply that nudism is only for young attractive people. That's not true at all. While I personally feel nudity could be an incentive to physical fitness, and it is for me, even a casual first-time nude beach visitor knows there are a wide variety of body types on the beach.

My point was "hey, it could be worse." If people are going to have a wrong idea of nudism I'd rather they have the idea that a beach near a college campus is filled with young college students (partly true, but an exaggeration in the case of the beach near our college) than to think the beach is mostly old creepy men on the prowl for young women, a pickup place for hookups, or worst of all, a place for illicit drug deals.

Non-nudists will tolerate an out-of-the-way beach for young college kids to meet each other and have fun getting undressed as long as their fun doesn't cross the line into things that would not be okay at a textile beach. Non-nudists will tolerate older "hippie hangouts" that aren't hurting anybody. "Out of sight, out of mind" and "different strokes for different folks" apply.

What non-nudists won't tolerate is a beach becoming a magnet for hookups, open sex, illicit activity, or worse. That's when police get called and beaches get shut down.

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny
NakedG
Hmmm, has Sunny been present among us all this time? Are BeachBunny and Sunny one and the same? BeachBunny does write as eloquently as Sunny always did. Hmmm....
No. Someone (maybe you) asked me the same question before. It was a simple typo -- BeachBunny was a nickname for me long ago but I don't usually use it anymore except here. I was thinking "Bunny" and typed "Sunny." I've fixed it.
Did you keep your post page open for several hours after posting, enabling you to go back and fix it?

Yes, that might have been me saying the same thing once before because I was feeling some deja vu as I was posting.

I was only teasing, but it's funny how you responded similarly to what I do in real life. Somebody makes a little comment and I respond with an essay and then get told something to the effect of "Jeez, I was just teasing."

P.S. - And I'm just teasing you on your thoroughness in explaining things (which I love).

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny
...even a casual first-time nude beach visitor knows there are a wide variety of body types on the beach.
Not here, necessarily. Over the years, I've come across LOTS of newbies who were very surprised at the wide variety of body types on the beach. Many of them had avoided their first trip to Gunnison for a while because of the 'beautiful bodies' they thought they were going to be comparing themselves to. As it turned out, they were very surprised to find that they looked just as good as, if not better than, everyone else on the beach.

Re: Why not?

NakedG
BeachBunny
NakedG
Hmmm, has Sunny been present among us all this time? Are BeachBunny and Sunny one and the same? BeachBunny does write as eloquently as Sunny always did. Hmmm....
No. Someone (maybe you) asked me the same question before. It was a simple typo -- BeachBunny was a nickname for me long ago but I don't usually use it anymore except here. I was thinking "Bunny" and typed "Sunny." I've fixed it.
Did you keep your post page open for several hours after posting, enabling you to go back and fix it?


Actually I did. I've learned when getting into these discussions on Sunny's site that it's wise to open them in a separate window that I can check from time to time and see if there's something new that's been posted.

NakedG
Yes, that might have been me saying the same thing once before because I was feeling some deja vu as I was posting. I was only teasing, but it's funny how you responded similarly to what I do in real life. Somebody makes a little comment and I respond with an essay and then get told something to the effect of "Jeez, I was just teasing."


Okay. Just want to respect the site owner and clarify that I'm not Sunny.

I'm not her, but if I were Sunny, I wouldn't be happy if a visitor to my site didn't make clear that we're two different people.

Re: Why not?

Although we used to go the beach a couple of times a year, always to the Outer Banks of North Carolina where the family owned a cottage until a couple of years ago, I don't go anymore. I try not to be creepy but in the spirt of full disclosure, I am 70. I have been thinking about many of the things I've posted about for the last 50 years and in fact, some of my experiences that I've mentioned are older than that.

Re: Why not?

BlueTrain
I try not to be creepy but in the spirt of full disclosure, I am 70. I have been thinking about many of the things I've posted about for the last 50 years and in fact, some of my experiences that I've mentioned are older than that.


I'm closing in on the 70 mark myself and often think the same. I don't want to be thought of as the "Laugh In's" Dirty Old Man character but want to provide some guidance through life experiences. As has been mentioned it is quite a drive, over an hour, to even get to a lake with a beach let alone a seashore. My joy and relaxation has come from being nude outdoors; mostly nude hiking. As a member of quite a few forums, most of which have become defunct, a skill has been developed which allows me to be nude in nature.

But to get back to the "why not?' of this thread. In a way clothing has now become an inconvenience for me. Whenever I do have to venture into the textile world there is a quandary of what to wear. For example, if I bundle to protect from the winter winds then there is an overheating problem when in a store. It's the same when friends visit (most relatives know I'm a naturist and tolerate at least) clothing becomes overbearing!

Yes BeachBunny, I knew you didn't mean your post as was taken but there was a need on my part to clarify our naturist position. Some of those pictures that have a voyeuristic quality which, if viewed by someone thinking of a visit, could give them the wrong impression. As with everything in life, it's hard to separate truth from lies or fantasy from reality. Oh, and retirement has been sooooooo good!

There was no "nude" beach near us when in college but there was a place on the river nearby known as "Bare Ass Beach". There was usually a crowd with thirty or so, many times with a keg and a fun time for all. That came to an end when the railroad that ran close to the river called the county deputies. No citations but plenty of threats put an end to our "nude" beach.

Re: Why not?

nudewalker
In a way clothing has now become an inconvenience for me. Whenever I do have to venture into the textile world there is a quandary of what to wear. For example, if I bundle to protect from the winter winds then there is an overheating problem when in a store. It's the same when friends visit....
I feel the same way!

Re: Why not?

NakedG
BeachBunny
...even a casual first-time nude beach visitor knows there are a wide variety of body types on the beach.
Not here, necessarily. Over the years, I've come across LOTS of newbies who were very surprised at the wide variety of body types on the beach. Many of them had avoided their first trip to Gunnison for a while because of the 'beautiful bodies' they thought they were going to be comparing themselves to. As it turned out, they were very surprised to find that they looked just as good as, if not better than, everyone else on the beach.


Thanks, NakedG.

What I meant was that even casual first-time visitors, when they visit the beach, will know there's a wide variety of body types. They might not know before they go, but they sure will after a few minutes of looking around.

nudewalker
BlueTrain
I try not to be creepy but in the spirt of full disclosure, I am 70. I have been thinking about many of the things I've posted about for the last 50 years and in fact, some of my experiences that I've mentioned are older than that.


I'm closing in on the 70 mark myself and often think the same. I don't want to be thought of as the "Laugh In's" Dirty Old Man character but want to provide some guidance through life experiences.


I hope I didn't offend either Nudewalker or Bluetrain. While I didn't know their ages, I did know that many who post here, probably most, are much older than me.

To repeat what I said earlier: "I'm not saying older men aren't welcome. I'm saying old men who hit on younger women drive them away. It's not usually hard to tell the difference between an older retired man who has visited a beach for years and loves it for the same reasons I do, and an older man who is there for the wrong reasons."

This site is text-only. Nothing visual. Most (maybe all) of the people who visit beaches for the wrong reasons would have no interest in this site.

nudewalker
There was no "nude" beach near us when in college but there was a place on the river nearby known as "Bare Ass Beach". There was usually a crowd with thirty or so, many times with a keg and a fun time for all. That came to an end when the railroad that ran close to the river called the county deputies. No citations but plenty of threats put an end to our "nude" beach.


Thanks for reminding us of something important. More people than we sometimes realize get together socially for events that include nudity but aren't at any kind of resort, beach, or other "recognized" nudist venue.

Way more people have gone skinny dipping or nude hot tubbing or nude sunbathing than publicly admit it. A lot of that goes on at college with friends. Being away from home for the first time likely contributes to that.

Some of the least expected people have quietly told me that back when they were in college they attended a pool party at which a few adventurous girls dared some others to go topless and the event ended with most or sometimes all of a group of male and female friends skinny dipping. Nude sunbathing for groups of women is almost mainstream. Modern clothing styles can reveal swimsuit tan lines in everyday wear, so more and more often, female friends are seeking out secluded places they can tan topless.

While organized nudism may be getting older, grayer and fewer in numbers, I'm not sure that's true for informal social nudity.

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny
NakedG
BeachBunny
.

While organized nudism may be getting older, grayer and fewer in numbers, I'm not sure that's true for informal social nudity.


I have to admit that we (the wife and I) have only been to a resort once. We were invited by another couple as he knew of my nudist tendencies; guess the no tan lines in the locker room gave it away! And being honest she was only topless and stated it was not her thing so we never returned. However, I have been back a few times, mostly to help do repairs on other peoples RV's, and have to admit that there is a relaxation being nude and doing work.

I'm sure this has been discussed before but organized nudism has not done anything to make it attractive to younger members. In fact I cannot remember seeing any type of advertisements other than for the world naked skinny dip record. Sorry, I don't have the answer as I'm not into the organization thing or do I frequent enough to have any ideas. But it's not only nudism; many of the groups that had large memberships at one time like the Moose Lodge, Elks, VFW and such are down in membership. Maybe life is too busy?

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny, you said: "While organized nudism may be getting older, grayer and fewer in numbers, I'm not sure that's true for informal social nudity".

While I have relatively little beach & resort experience for my 74 years [in the spirit of 'full disclosure' as if nudity itself weren't full disclosure ;-)] my observation on Spanish beaches is that there is a much wider age-range than the limited exposure I have to N. American sites. One of my fondest memories from nude-day 1 on a beach near Marbella, Spain, was a young family of mother, father and a couple of young kids, all nude, building sandcastles and taking family photographs. On the same day I walked past the older, black-clad Spanish ladies who were obviously unconcerned about nudity (or they wouldn't have come to that beach).

The one (central American) place I have been to which was a small eco-resort had a wide variety of ages. I was probably the oldest, the youngest were middle-aged and many were there to go diving from nearby diving establishments. The resort advertises itself as unsuitable for young children, and kids would have been in school at that time of year, so I am not surprised. Price would also have been a factor for some younger people, as well as air fare.

My observation in California last August (midweek days) at Black's Beach, De Anza Springs and Olive Dell - deserted, aged.

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny
This site is text-only. Nothing visual. Most (maybe all) of the people who visit beaches for the wrong reasons would have no interest in this site.
That's one big reason why we like it.

Re: Why not?

BeachBunny


Mmmmm.... I think we all agree that different things work differently for different couples. But don't we all agree that sexual desire is a good thing inside a marriage? I want my husband to desire me. He wants me to desire him. Does that make me a "sex object?" Well, at the time that he's looking at me "that way," yes, and I like it!


I would definitely agree that spouses should harbor some intense, passionate erotic feelings for one another. I think that's essential in a healthy marriage. My point was simply that these passions seem to reach an unhealthy point when they become compulsive - as in, the husband uncontrollably has an erection the moment his wife's shirt comes off. I understand and affirm and support erotic feelings for our spouses - like I said, it's essential - but I don't think it ought to be compulsive was my point.

I don't mean to convey a "Spock-like" relationship: "Hello, darling. Your skin is looking healthy this evening." "Thank you, dear. Your complexion seems tip-top as well. Shall we have supper now?" "Marvelous." Not at all.

What I'm arguing for isn't the deletion of nudity-centered eroticism in marriage, but a certain degree of control within that center. For instance, a husband and wife ought to be able to hold normal conversation, I think, whether they're nude or not - but if they literally can't help but get aroused when they're nude around each other, I personally think that's a bad sign.

And I'm sorry if I seemed disapproving of your marriage's workings. If that works for you guys, then that's great. I think there's a better way, obviously, but don't take apart a clock that's ticking, right? Sincerely - if your marriage is working fine, then "keep on keepin' on!" as we say in Louisiana.

Re: Why not?

NakedG
BeachBunny
This site is text-only. Nothing visual. Most (maybe all) of the people who visit beaches for the wrong reasons would have no interest in this site.
That's one big reason why we like it.


Absolutely! I like the Naturist Living Show podcast for the same reason - NO visuals. There isn't anything to get 'excited' about, because they don't really talk about bodies most of the time - just naturism and its issues! It's a great show. I highly recommend it to any English-speaking naturists!