Hi! Welcome to my message board! Use it to contact me or others or to post questions and share ideas and experiences. The topic should always be related to nudism / naturism. Feel free to respond to posts from others in a respectful way if you have something helpful or meaningful to contribute. Let's keep it light, lively, and most of all, fun! Thanks!
I thought the purpose of shorts (underpants) was purely sanitary. It hasn't been all that long, though before living memory, that men began wearing shorts. However, that fact must be taken along with all the other little details of men's clothing. At one time, a man's shirt reached to the knees. But it was also considered an undergarment. Long underwear was also worn for warmth, too, of course, because heating systems were not so efficient and we didn't dash from the house to the car in our shirt-sleeves. Beyond that, you can make up any story you like about the purpose of undergarments.
My grandmother, born, I think, in 1879, never owned a bra. She still owned corsets, although she had given up wearing them by the time I came along. She wore "step-ins," vests, thick stockings and dresses. I am unable to provide any insights into her feels on her clothing.
Basically, however, what is being discussed is dress reform, which comes up every couple of generations. Feel free to discuss whatever ideas you have regarding clothing, male or female, adult or child.
In the meantime, you might be interested in knowing that a few nudist clubs suggest that as the weather gets cooler, which it may or may not do this year, that club members may begin wearing appropriate garments. But the last part of the body to be covered is the genitals. One might conclude that nudism is all about exposing the genitals. Feel free to discuss that idea, too.
Good points, BlueTrain.
This is from Beachgirl's post on Nov 18 in "My First Nude Experience"
Were there any men playing golf without shirts when you were there?
For me as a male, the stimulation item was more of an issue when I was younger. Also, the more I went "commando" the more I was used to it. Last point is that we are humans who have the extraordinary ability to modify their environment. As some have mentioned, that's a/c and heaters, but that could also apply to clothing. For example, jeans can be uncomfortable to wear commando for some people and so someone came up with fleece-lined jeans...maybe for warmth too but I think it was advertised as for those who want to wear less.
So could there be clothing tailored to the concerns mentioned here?
Makes sense that a bra is A solution, but I was wondering how to take it further an make it so that the issues with a bra and other underwear are addressed yet keep the rest of the fashion standards (e.g.. suitable in professional or non-sexual situations) or all the other undesirable results mentioned above.
My comment questioning if there were "topless" men on the golf course was to suggest that men may not in reality have the freedom to go without at short as much as is suggested. At one time, as you probably know, men had to wear shirts at the beach. But conventions vary a great deal, both from place to place and from time to time. For instance, when I was little and even on through high school, I never saw one man wearing shorts. Some men I knew never ever wore short sleeved shirts. To have suggested to any of those men that there was a double standard with regards to modest clothing would have been laughable.
But on the other side of town, who knows what conventions prevailed?
But there are some peculiar standards, to be sure, and women have it harder, I think. It is odd, in a way, that women are expected to not allow the hint of a nipple to show, yet woe to a woman who is flat-chested.
You make some very good point, BeachBunny. My visits to nudist resorts, mostly Cypress Cove, were mostly in the late 90s and early 2000s. There were very few families with teens there at the time. I suspect it is the same now. There are very few kids who were raised as nudists in the 80s-90s who are practicing nudists as adults today. I don't know why that is the way it is. I've often wondered.
I think the golden age for family nudism was in the 50s-70s. I base this on the books and magazines of the time that I have been able to see. There were so many families with everything from infants to teens enjoying vacations or weekends at their local nudist clubs. The youth seemed so natural, relaxed, unaffected by having their pictures taken; just enjoying themselves. In my visits in the 90s I saw nothing even approaching those family scenes.
I must add that I'm far from an authority on the subject. I've not visited enough clubs, in enough locations, for a long enough times to really make an informed judgement. It's just my impression, for what it's worth.
And I do agree completely with you, BeachBunny that as far as families are concerned this is not a discussion to be had on the internet. It is to be had face to face within each individual family.
I probably have exhausted all of my knowledge and opinions about the matter.
The "Golden Age" is never the present, is it? I've seen a lot of the nudist magazines from the 1950s and 1960s (they largely disappeared in the 1970s) and while it is true they generally showed families, it is doubtful that they depicted a true picture of nudist clubs. They naturally wanted to present the best picture possible of nudist life. They typically never showed old people, as the few nudist magazines that exist now do. The whole subject of nudist magazines is an interesting topic in itself. One could also note that nobody today looks like anyone in the 1950s or 1960s.
I think there may be a lot of reasons why you don't see many teenagers at nudist clubs. Some teenagers don't even want to be seen with their parents at the mall, much less in a nudist environment or at a nude beach (which I do not categorize as a nudist environment). There is a group-think mentality among teenagers that tends to prevent them from wanting to do anything with their parents. I suspect there is also the fact that teenagers are feeling their hormones, too, probably beginning as early as 6th grade, if what my schoolteacher wife tells me is true.
Another thing is that no one seems to join the kinds of social clubs that people belonged to in the 1950s. All the traditional organizations from churches to bowling leagues seem to have experienced the same thing. People might belong to some kind of club but it might be a spa where they go to workout at 5:30 in the morning. Some of the clubs where all those wonderful photos in the old nudist magazines were taken are history now, although I believe there are a few newer ones and some are still going strong. But there are alternatives now. People in general or at least the sort who might visit a nudist club, are more affluent now and are just as likely to fly off to Florida or the Caribbean for a dose of nude recreation as they are to drive to a club a hundred miles away to set up a tent and use a tiny little swimming pool. Anyway, the older clubs would never be described as a resort. Maybe the whole idea of nudism changed over the years. It doesn't seem to be about sunbathing anymore.
Excellent points all around, BlueTrain. I immediately thought of Robert D. Putnam's 2000 best seller, "Bowling Alone".
I thought of that, too, only I've never read the book. However, all of my comments are just my own impressions and may be off the mark. For one thing, my own relatives when I was little did not belong to anything except unions, all of them being blue collar workers. But my father was a faithful church member his whole life. We have tended to be also and in fact, my wife has two relatives who were or are (one is deceased) clergymen, one of whom married her parents. Other than church, the only thing we belong to at the moment is a swim club two blocks from the house. My wife is also a faithful lap swimmer. At one time, though, we were very active in certain folk dance clubs but we quit doing that when we had children.
A few years ago, the small company I owned had leased office space. My small programming staff would often be offsite, so my secretary (a member of my church and a devout Christian, as I am) and I would be alone in the office together. It is germane to the story to mention that she is quite large-breasted and has to wear blouses nearly to her neck to show no cleavage.
Her desk was in the entry to the business - a small lobby with a couple of chairs for guests and her desk to one side; there was a hallway nearby, where our networked printer was. My office opened into the lobby near the printer.
One day, I went to get something from the printer and saw a brown paper bag (lunch sack) lying near it on top of the shelf that held supplies. Curious, I opened it see nothing but a good-sized bra! I was puzzled, and racked my brains to figure out how it got there, and tried to remember any female visitors we had had, and what on earth would have led to the bra-in-the-bag!
After a day or two, it occurred to me to ask my secretary if she knew anything about it. She laughed and said that it was hers - she just hated wearing a bra and sometimes went into the restroom and took it off.
Of course I told her that it made no difference to me - that she should always opt for comfort. This led into a discussion of bralessness, and toplessness, and of nudity in general as Christians. I admitted to her that my wife (whom she knows) and I skinnydip and do other things in the nude, and she admitted that her husband goes nude at home, and they both use their hot tub in the buff - her comment was "Is there any other way?".
We've joked about it privately from time to time, in a quiet moment after church. She is an ordained associate pastor in the church and very much on-fire for our Saviour - but understands the freedom He has given us.
I do wish we could have gone on to enjoy social nudity with her and her husband - or at least to have a clothing-optional office - but I wasn't as open then to suggesting it as I probably would be now.
I think if women commonly went braless, and the outline of nipples were a common sight, people would quickly get de-sensitized to it, just as we did with the sight of halter-tops in the 60's and 70's.
You mentioned going "commando". As child I always wore cotton briefs. When I joined the Air Force they issued cotton boxers. I found they would shrift around and pinch so I went to back to briefs. Just recently I have switched to boxer briefs and find them the most comfortable.
You mention nipples showing under your blouses. The girl I was engaged to before I meat my wife had inverted nipples that were under her breasts until she became aroused. Usually we were alone together when this happened. She always wore a bra when we went out in public.I was not a nudist when I was dating her. I did ask her once to join me to visit a nudist camp. she did't tank that suggestion very well. We broke up shortly after that.