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Hi! Welcome to my message board! Use it to contact me or others or to post questions and share ideas and experiences. The topic should always be related to nudism / naturism. Feel free to respond to posts from others in a respectful way if you have something helpful or meaningful to contribute. Let's keep it light, lively, and most of all, fun! Thanks!

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Nude training?

Back in the day, we were required to take a shower after phy ed classes and athletic events. This practice ended, I think somewhere back in the 90's. Why? We roamed the locker rooms (both boys and girls) between our lockers and the group showers naked and thought nothing of it. It gave us practice being nude with others. Now it seems body shame has returned in a big way. TNS had a focus on fighting that years ago, but I have lost track of them and don't know if that is still the case. I know boys go home to shower after a football game if at all. It is no wonder why people have become so uncomfortable being nude with others. The sort of training or practice we had back in the day is long gone. It think it played a sort of unconscious role in being OK being nude around others. I have heard stories about how now in locker rooms of various kinds people are more apt to wrap themselves in a towel to go to what have now become private showers. It seems body shame is ruling the day.

Re: Nude training?

While school locker rooms may have had that effect, it seems to be a societal shift much more than simply a school shift. A lot of it is also parents becoming ruled by fear of predators, not that there are more of them now, we just worry more. I certainly had more freedom as a kid in the 60's and 70's than my kids and their friends did in the 90's and 00's. On the weekend, we'd leave the house in the morning, and nobody worried if we were roaming around the neighborhood with our friends all day long. Just show up for dinner.

Re: Nude training?

I did not want to imply what's happened is because of what's happened in locker rooms. I agree there has been a societal shift toward shameful nudity. Why? I'm sure the closings of some nude beaches and clubs over the years has not helped either.

Re: Nude training?

Hi, Group:

Hi, Group:

This exchange is named Nude Training. I want to think of it as Draping. We were born naked and when we were about to meet someone important, we looked around for something to put on. Whenever we heard an important visitor, we hid: like Adam and Eve and God.

Gradually, people commenced learning that they were expected to be covered: in the front room, outside, on the playground, grade school, employment, any social gatherings, wherever. We learned to not offend anyone else’s feelings by letting our private areas show.

If we are home in a bedroom with a friend visiting, and need to change, without asking for permission, we can just shuck off and put on whatever we’re going to, without hurting anyone – except perhaps someone else who hears about it.

So much of our locker room transgression here is not to our shame nor to our friend’s discomfiture – it’s third party distress. If a neighbor finds out that we were disrobed with someone else seeing us, and is upset about that, it didn’t matter if you were confident and your friend was comfortable that afternoon.

What you did warranted discipline; punishment.

I am watching now how most lawmakers (and we really need to take that power away) most lawmakers decide – without consulting us – decide to disable people younger than 18, the magic number differs between jurisdictions, decide what others have a pre-constitutional right to see, to view, to form their own opinion.

Have we delegated too much capability to the third party? All this should be between you and your friend, not your neighbor, nor your legislature! As long as we let others tell us what’s okay, and we let ‘em, we will feel shame.

You shall know the truth, and the truth will make you feel guilty.

Re: Nude training?

Good post Dak.

There's one sport where almost 100 percent of people still use showers and that's swimming. Hygiene makes it essential. I can't speak about men and locker rooms or about sports like football where players get very dirty, but my experience is women who swim regularly, whether in high school or college sports, or recreational swimming in public or private or home swimming pools, are often the only young women anymore who have much experience with group nudity with other women.

My "success stories" of convincing extremely modest women, the women who nobody would dream would ever try social nudity, are often women who love swimming. Is it because they're used to swimsuits, the one context where society says it's okay for young men and young women to look at each other with most of their clothing off? Is it because women who swim regularly are often more physically fit and more confident in their bodies? Or is it what Dak calls "training," with women seeing each other nude in the locker room and shower?

Not sure. Probably all three. But even with changing facilities at pools, cubicles for showering are becoming common and women see less and less of each other nude in locker rooms and showers, even at swimming pools.

We roamed the locker rooms (both boys and girls) between our lockers and the group showers naked and thought nothing of it. It gave us practice being nude with others. Now it seems body shame has returned in a big way.

I'm not so sure the women "thought nothing" of the group showers. My mother says for lots of women in junior high and high school, getting naked and showering in front of classmates in PE was a humiliating experience. I'm sure some of this happened with men also, but women are often far more judgmental of each others' looks, and far more embarrassed about their own bodies even when they have no reason to be, than most men.

While I agree with you about men walking around the locker room fully naked and walking fully naked from the locker room to the shower, my mother tells me it was normal even when she was in high school for many women to undress in the locker room facing the locker, wrap themselves in towels, walk to the shower, take off their towels as late as possible (often hanging them on a peg in the shower room itself), shower, and get back to their towels as quick as they could, and then scurry back to their locker so they could get clothes on.

Today, with open group showers less and less common as more and more schools and athletic facilities remodel, cubicles for privacy are what enough people want that even if a majority don't mind open group showers, cubicles get installed because the people who demand them are very vocal.

My husband tells me even in the men's locker rooms, there's pressure on men to wrap a towel around themselves after undressing. If younger men walk around the locker room naked, or in many cases even if they walk from the locker room to the shower naked, people wonder if they are "showing off" or "being an exhibitionist." Older men don't seem to be bothered by walking around nude in the locker room, but younger men feel people will think bad things about them if they don't cover up with a towel.

I'm sure it depends on the local practice and the particular group of men or women. Some of my female friends didn't at all mind letting other women see them in the locker room or showering at pool. Others clearly were uncomfortable.

But with shower cubicles becoming common even this remaining example that everyone agrees needs to happen -- showering before using a pool is really important -- may become mostly individual showers rather than group showers.

Re: Nude training?

Showering after a swim in most pools is important too!
Chlorine is not good for swimsuits/trunks and not good for skin.
You need to wash that stuff off.

I took a swim class in scouts and we showered before and after.
No privacy once you were inside the shower: no stalls, and your towel was not very close by. Same with summer church camp.

In scouts and church camp these were smaller groups than school and we were all friends.
Nudity was simply nothing on. No embarrassment, no showing off.
You undress, shower and put your clothes back on, simple as that.

If kids are missing out on that, I understand the widening gulf between nudists and non-nudists. I don't know how we can save the outside world from body shame. At least in the short-term, we can only address the issue within our own families and close friends.

Korean spas require nudity in sex-separated areas. In our larger cities you may encounter them and adventuresome non-Koreans are trying the experience.

Are there other ways to get people out of the body shame mindset?

Skinny dipping with a female friend when I was at a secluded lake was a big part of my journey toward comfort with nudity. I found her extremely attractive (I still do), but we each had our hearts elsewhere romantically, so no fooling around, just nudity.

But I know that I have hardly covered the ways to encourage people to uncover. Open for discussion!

Re: Nude training?

Beach Bunny

"Older men don't seem to be bothered by walking around nude in the locker room"

That's me, I'm older men. When I use the shower at my local YMCA I generally walk between my locker and the shower with my towel over my shoulder or in hand instead of wrapped around me. I don't know (and don't much care) what others think of my mode of dress. In my mind I'm trying to model the behavior of one who doesn't have body shame, and that there is no reason for clothes in those environs until done with the shower.