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Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

Hello and welcome, Izzy--

When I started this forum last year, I knew that there were many wise and kind people with real life experience who would be able to offer useful advice to others who were confused, or suffering some kind of emotional pain, and that is exactly what has happened on this thread. BT read your question, understood perfectly what you are going through, and has given you some excellent advice which, in my view, you should hear, understand, and use.

Psycho-sexual development refers to the process of changing from an infant to an adult who is capable of relationship and sexual reproduction by mating with another human being. In many ways, that process is automatic, and does not need to be managed. For example, soon after a baby is born, it discovers its own genitals and begins to play with them, which is called "masturbation." This is an entirely normal and expected part of growing up (psycho-sexual development), which is needed so that the growing child can feel its own body and feel how it works. Learning to achieve orgasm by means of masturbation lays the groundwork for being able to have orgasms through sexual intercourse later in life, and so masturbation is required by the human being in order to become a fully capable adult. Unfortunately, religious authorities and others have demonized masturbation, labeling it a sin and the child who engages in it a sinner. This is completely erroneous. There is nothing at all sinful or wrong about masturbation. In fact, it is good for you!

The same is true of other kinds of sexual experimentation in which children engage with other children or sometimes animals. It is not a sin or wrong. On the contrary, this is a normal part of psycho-sexual development. Such experiences teach the child about her own body, and how sexuality feels. This prepares the child for later functioning as an adult. Now such activities, as I have written elsewhere, have one meaning when a child does them, and quite another when an adult does. For the child, sexual play with another child or even with an animal is experimentation. For an adult, it is not experimentation, but the sign of an unhealthy relationship to sexuality, for we expect adults to have had sufficient psycho-sexual development to be able to engage is sex with other consenting adults, not with children or animals. In other words, one sign of an adult is already having passed through the stage of childhood sexual experimentation--not to keep repeating it, which would be childish. I hope you see this difference.

I will repeat myself, Izzy. You have done nothing wrong. Everything you did with your sister was a normal part of childhood sexual experimentation aimed a furthering your psycho-sexual development. YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG.

I strongly advise you to simply accept this opinion, which is the opinion of a trained and experienced psychotherapist, and now just forget the whole thing. I advise you not to discuss it with your mother, which really will not help you, and which might cause her pain and confusion. It is up to you now. Everything you did with your sister was a normal and expected part of childhood development, not a sin or a crime. Please take my word for it and move on. When you are older and have had lovers of your own, I am sure you will understand.

Be wel

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

Thank you so much for wasting your time answering to my questions. Now I understand better and I feel better.
I already had made the decision of not telling my mom about it. I’m sure that will not help in any way, I would probably make me more stressful, and so as her.
I have repeated to myself that I am a good person, and that I shouldn’t be ashamed of what happen because you said is a normal and expected part of childhood sexual experimentation, that I haven’t done anything wrong. But… I will just forget it like right way? No right? It will take time, because even though it’s a normal thing and I haven’t done nothing wrong, it is a new subject for me and I haven’t been trough that.
Also is it normal for me to be wondering about others people childhood, like my friends, or the people that I see in TV or my family?
Thanks for your time

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

Thanks again.
My father has sometimes problems with alcohol, nothing too abusive. There was a period that he would come home I would be afraid that he would beat me up or something like that. But after he left home, my mom kind of kick him out, that was the time that kind of stop, I think it was before, but between that time where he come home drunk, and he and my mom fought, that was the time that happened that. But It’s all past, it’s all past, and it’s all good. It was a normal experience, that I shouldn’t be ashamed of, or feel guilty in any way, because my sister forgave me.
But you know, don’t you ever wonder how others life are? Like if they had the same experience that you had? I mean I don’t know anyone else that had been trough the same experience than me. But I shouldn’t be wondering about that right? It’s bad for me. I just need to realize that was normal experience in childhood, and that I am good, my sister is good, and that I am a good person, I am a good person, I am a good freaking person.
Also when you realize that it was a normal experience and it wasn’t wrong at all because like I said it was normal, like you are not all recovered in some way, you still think about it? So it’s normal, that I still think about it, like sometimes I forget about it, but sometimes it crosses my mind… It will be like this forever? It will be fine right? I just got to get over it, and see it as something normal …

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

Just wanted to say that after coming across this site I feel much better. I did things when I was younger that I'm really not proud of. I completely blocked it out till a couple of years ago and then forgot about it again till a couple of days ago. And since then I've been thinking about talking to someone, like a helpline, but was paranoid that they would be disgusted by me and may even call the police.

I try to be a good person and believe in karma, and since remembering what I've done I feel like something really bad is going happen to me. I want forgiveness. I want peace of mind.

Maybe when I feel braver I'll elaborate on my situation.

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved


Stop putting this overwhelming guilt on yourself. Your sister equally participated in the act as you. Did she push you away, started screaming or turned on you. There wasn't need for it, cause it was nothing wrong. As much as there is no need for this church-kind-of stuff now. YOU NEED TO FORGIVE YOURSELF. And not for sexually experimenting with your sister, but just for being human. I see you have a difficult time accepting that. Stop speaking like you are an abuser, and even opening a possibility to people to call you one. Cause you are not. For a thousand time. You are not. You are not. Stop making an elephant from a common flea.

It's not bad for you to wonder. But it's bad for you to start being obsessed with the subject. Cause you can hear things that will help you and those that will only make you feel worse. Leave the subject and start living your life as a 16 year old girl, mostly carefree and stuff. Freeze this picture of a dirty act you have in your mind and just make it smaller and smaller and then finally blow it away.

You will think about it forever and not another day. It's just a matter of your own decision. Of your own brain to rationale and get a hang out of life, it's good and it's bad days. And this is just a beginning. There is so much more ahead of you. GIVE YOURSELF TIME AND SPACE TO BREATH. Outside of this story you came to tell us, outside of any story you know. Empty your brain and start over.

If you keep obsessing about the subject it may turn out you are even auto-destructive and concentrated on judgment of others. Do you want to be a bad guy? Do you want to keep reading and looking for someone who will tell you are a molester and everything bad? I hope not.. So don't.. :o)


There is no such story that has not already been written. Take the time you need..

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

You can't imagine how thankfull I am to you and to Dr. robert. I really don't know what I would have done without your help, I probably would gone crazy or get into a depression.
You made me see, that I am not an abuser, that I have done nothing wrong, that was a normal experience of the chilhood. I understand know children are curious, and it's okay to explore that curiousity because we are kids and we are still learnig how to live in this crazy life we have.

But I have to say that I'm not totally heel, because heeling takes time.
I sometimes when I am with my friends, I start wondering what would happen if they find out, if they would still be my friends. I know that I shouldn't have such thoughts, because they are bad for me, so I just push them away.

Also I don't know why but I start feeling my hands shaking ( it's not a really bad shaking, it's an almost invisible shaking) and my heart racing, sometimes without feeling my chest. Why is it happening? How do I make it stop? I that another form of anxiety?

Is just that sometimes I think about it- what happen(the experience)- but then when I am focus on others things I stop thinking about it, but I still know that happen because I can feel my hand shaking and my heart racing.
I don't know if it made any sence to you but it doesn't make a lot sence to me either.

Thanks for wasting your time.

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

You're not wasting my time. By helping you I am actually trying to help myself.

Yes. It is anxiety. I have panic attacks almost on a daily basis. I lose all air in my chest and start crying and crying. I shiver and cover myself with a blanket and moan. And then I pick myself up and find strength to finish my day. DON'T DO THAT TO YOURSELF, don't be me :(

I am considering taking another trip to the psychologist and I will if this thing progresses. I think about what if he felt that minute that i rubbed against him in his sleep. What if he was paralyzed and frightened and wanted the touching to stop. He assures me that he didn't. I can't even talk to my mother about it anymore cause she gets mad and tells me; how can you demonize a child's play to such extent. My brother held me yesterday while I cried and kept saying, everything is going to be ok. I hate doing this to him.

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

Yeah I know what you feel. Before searching for dr. robert help I had a really bad time. I start feeling that I shoudn't be loved and I startt feeling like you, panic atacks. I start crying and crying, and I couldn't even breathe. But after you and Dr. robert help me I start feeling much better. I dind't had any more panic attacks, but sometimes I still cry, because it's so overwhelming sometimes I can't belive that it really happen. Sometimes I just wish I had a normal childhood. I see all my girlfriends, and I think: Their biggest problem must be if I they have a pimple or if they can't find a boyfriend. I mean I wish I could worry about that, I wish I could just drop the subject and live my life as a 16 ear old teenager but, I constantly feel my hands shaking like all the time. I can't really make it stop. I wish I could, do you know how to? I just have to be foucus and stay positive. I mean I am absolutly sure that if my hands didn't shake I could just drop it.

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

I'm not sure why you feel that way. Cause.. Yes you had sexual play with your sister. But no, you did not take it overboard. You don't have a large age gap between you like me and my brother do. And you both participated in the action. I know everybody feel their pain is the strongest and biggest but if you feel bad, how am I suppose to feel?

I will now write to you what a woman wrote to me on a psychology forum page from my own country.

"For God sakes. A child is giving herself pleasure like a dog who rubes on a visitor's leg. There is nothing wrong about it, especially if the object is saying so. If you had each your own room, individual babysitters, studied latin in free time, you wouldn't have had the chance to explore in such ways and would both probably be into heavy S&M nowdays. lol.. This way, you are children of the Finish school, find a job, get married. STOP FINDING ALIBIS WHERE THERE ARE NONE."

And Izzy.. read this book, if you get a chance..

"Simona Vinci - What we don't know about children"

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

Well I understan everything that you are saying to me and I apreciate so much for you to reply me and help me. You are the only person that I can talk to about it. I couldn't talk to my mom, because I don't want her to feel ashamed or scared. I know that if she react like that, she wouldn't have the right to be my mom because what I did was nothing wrong, but I read somewher when I was searching about that book you told me "what we don't know about children" and I saw like a comment on the page and it said something like "this is all parents nightmare..." and I didn't read more, but...
Also I couldn't tell my friends of course. I know that they wouldn't understand and they would probably think I am an abuser or whatever, and I think that's is enough what I have to go trough school, because I have a really low self-estime and other things going on. But when I get older? Should I tell my friends and boyfriend? I mean I hope, I sinceraly hope, that when I am older or in a few months I can be ok with all this and not be worried about this sort of things and just live my life. But should I tell them? Or is no need to do that, because it was just a phase that I went trough? I don't really know, I never had a boyfriend so I don't know how people get to know each other. I mean I know but this is a part of who I am? Or is just a thing that children go through to descover more about sexuality? I don't know and I think you could really help me.

Also I saw your post in that guy, that has also been trough sexual play with other children, and I wonder about what you said, that you start masturbation late, and what is the age that girls normaly start to masturbate? Because I just start masturbation last year and I guess if I had start earlier my sister and I woudn't be involved in a sexual play. I don't know.

Alsoabout that book? I can't really buy it, but have you read it? Because if you did I would like for you to tell me what's the storie and what should I get from the book.

Thank you, I am so sorry if by reading my posts tI make you feel worse, or anything, is just that you are like the only one I can talk to.

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

Living in the past... When will any of you ever learn to live in the now? I guess you can't. Your brains lack the capacity to comprehend the shifting of time.

So you loop problems in your head until final meltdown. How.. pathetic.

Sometimes we wish to shift back in time and correct the errors of our past. It is sad that none of you take into account that who you are is not who you were.

Surely you no longer exhibit such behaviors.. as you have grown. So why would you ever look back at a lesser version of who you once were and punish yourself... now.. for something you didn't do. Who you are wouldn't commit such acts so why look back on a lesser version of yourself and feel such guilt?

I do not blame myself for my past mistakes. I only seek to grow from them and make weakness into strength.

When will you learn that who you were is not who you are and yet who you were.. shapes who you are. Everything you do is to auto correct behaviors of your childhood. To.. complete you as a person that lives in the now.

The inner child is still part of you and yet you seek to destroy your own selves in such a manner... to die inside. You are sad creatures who don't even understand their own design. Is this what Jesus would do? I think not.

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

True. Every word. But you know why? Cause nobody wants to accept that they were (not are) an abuser. Like you said, the ego feels ashamed. And you dread at the thought that the person you feel you abused is gonna confirm their feelings of the abuse one day. You feel responsible. Although it's not you. And it can not possibly be you. Because like you said. That person is not here anymore. Just the consequences of their actions are. But you bear the burden of them.

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

What wolfie is on about is actually something that really, really annoys me about people in general.

Almost everyone is living either in the past or in a distant future, preparing for something, an idle fantasy. What the hell is so wrong with the present? How can you ever get where you want to go if you don't live in the present? I find such a life sad and pathetic, to always look forward to something by being miserable in the present or beating yourself up over something that happened instead of learning from the experience. You live it again and again and again. It's fine to analyze an experience, to figure out what went wrong, where and why as to not make the same mistakes but to regret it? Should have, could have and would have is meaningless past understanding.

Every experience, positive or negative, makes you a stronger person IF you understand the implications of the experience. This childhood sexual play thing seems popular these days and it seems silly to me. How else WOULD you get to know yourself and your sexuality if you don't experiment? Do some think that we are somehow born with the knowledge to have sex? I mean, yes, pretty much everyone has the sexual drive but the releasing part is what seems to be a taboo, especially in the US, for some odd reason. Here is a shocking revelation; people fuck. Not only themselves but eachother too! Sticking your dick into a hole repeatedly is the basic idea, sure but the only way we learn what gets us off the best is by trying out! You are not ashamed about trying different foods are you? So what if it was your sibling, i bet you anything that unless he/she was forced and screaming for mommy, they enjoyd the experience aswell.

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved

Hi Hexi. Ive never posted on her before but have spent a great deal of time browsing through the forums and archives. Fuk i wish more people were like you. What you have said is how i feel. People seem to think (even i did admitedly) that anything sexual is bad. is evil. ...... i meen what a load of complete bull shit that is. the world and the people in it are fukd and i think lets just leave it at that.

Re: Felling like I shoudn't be loved


Sorry for late responding Izzy, but I'm trying to keep myself of the forum as much as I can and didn't want to write even this I am writing now, but I felt bad for you and I see you got really connected on me through this matter. I would never ever usually do this but I think I can trust you so if you want to take our writings somewhere else. I've opened up an email adress that you can send me your email or even link to your facebook account if you have one, and I will add you. And we can chat there. And of course you can trust me on the privacy matter. I plead on any other person reading this not to take advantage of this e-mail and send me stupidities. You can't get any personal data on me through it anyways.


Read into the words of Wolf and Hexi, cause what they are saying COULDN'T BE MORE TRUE. But we are to sick in a way to comprehend this, and they are objective and realistic, older, wiser and pretty much everything. Btw I didn't give you the email adress so we fell sorry for each other and pull ourselves back into the pathetic state. I want to pull us through. It's enough with the pathetic. I say enough.