David, don't think about yourself and your life using beliefs that apply to normals. You only feel bad because you judge yourself by their standards and find yourself wanting. You depress yourself when you keep believing that you should follow someone else's prescription for a good life. The way out is simple: stop doing that.
You will have to create and define fulfillment in ways that make sense to you and you alone. That is good news. You are free.
I do see what you are saying and you are right it is me depressing my self. But what do you guys do with your lifes, I mean are any of you middle aged? Do you just live alone or with gf's that you enjoy playing games with? There is only so long I can play games with someone before I get bored and I just don't wana do it forever really. I oftern find that i have social constraints in how I act. If someone droped dead infront of me I would never care. But I feel I've been brought up better then to do bad things to them even though I really don't care about them. I dunno, I just feel so confused at the moment and every time I read up about sociopaths i feel like im being incriminated :(
Thankyou for taking the time to post such a long post. The Dr told me to post here when I contacted him.
Anger I find very hard to let go of. I have kicked out of my life about 9 people now because they made me angry. It didn't have to be anything massive but they screwed up for what ever reason and I didn't see a reason to forgive them. I frequently tell people who have angered me how I couldn't care if they died and people have picked up on the fact that I am very anti to those that have offended me in such a way.
This is not to say that I am uncontrollerble. I rarely loose an arguement and if am I beaten I do not turn into a rage. The anger comes mainly comes when someone does something I hadn't anticipated. Which is also quite rare.
Happyness is a strange thing. Unless I have a reason to be happy I rarely am. I'm usualy just neutral. I go through fazes where I will feel very depressed for no reason and for a long time thought I was on the bi polar spectrum and am still not sure if I may be that too and a sociopath. I would say that my baseline emotional state is quite a negative one. I don't like people, I judge a person on their flaws and see them in everyone. I hate how obvious peoples games are too me and their lies. When someone does something wrong people oftern claim it was a mistake but I don't beleive in mistakes. In truth they did it because they thought they could get away with it and when caught relise the best thing to do is to act guilty.
This is why I rarely ever accept appologises unless it is for something minor and truely accidental. Everyone does something for a reason. Hardly anyone does anything for free and there is always something to gain. Even if it is a boost in "friendship status", which is after all still a highly useful thing to have if you are the more popular one. You can manipulate people alot more as a result. The few people who do just do things to be nice are mugs and they get trampled over by society as a result.
I do experience positive states of happyness but it seems they occour less then the negative states. I am well known as an extream pessimist but I can always support the reasons for my pessimist views and arn't just being it for no reason.
I will always care about peoples views of how I look as I do consider my self to be quite attractive and do have quite a bit of success with women as a result. I see no reason not to look good if I can. I don't spend hours though trying to get ready or anything like that.
At the end of the day I don't like being considered beneith others for what ever reason and will always strive to be the best.
When it comes to interaction with others the majority of the general public I don't care about. I feel I see through them and they are vastly ignorant and unintelligent. I have since met a handful of people at uni who have at least come across as being above the rest intelligence wise, both socially and academically but I do still feel above them, even if they do not feel the same way. It does annoy me that one of my friends clearly presumes he is the more intellectual but fails to realise that doing a degree in classic's is not of much use compared to my degree in maths, which is a far more useful branch of intellect. I haven't brought this up with him though.
I don't struggle to mingle in with social groups at first and usualy become very popular within them quickly. However after a while I oftern tend to work my way back out as I stop caring about the things I say to them so much and start expressing my true opinions of them more as they grate on me. As a result I oftern find my self finding a new group after a while and staying friends with a select through in that group who didn't irritate me so much.
My own mum frequently says that I don't have a conscience and it's true. I generally don't care how people feel. This is not to say I am a bad person. Many would regard me as a good person infact. I was brought up well by my parents and while I do not care how someone feels or if they were to drop dead infront of me, I still do not harm them without provocation. Although when pushed I can quickly demoralise someone or socially exclude them.
This is what anger's me in a way when I read up about sociopaths it describes them as being evil people who want to take over the world and mass murder everyone. I am not like this. I do not take sadistic pleasure in the harming of others and especially animal cruelty, which I can't stand as I consider many animals to be above the general public. My dog for example will never lie or try and cheat me he just loves me unconditionally and is dependable. I cannot say that about humans.
Which brings me on to the topic of love. It is a sad realisation that I know I will likely never know what it is. I don't feel anything for my family and I know they love me dearly. I don't know if i could go as far as saying I wouldn't care if they drooped dead because I know I would, but not for loving reasons. They provide me many things which I could not do without and would never be able to go through uni otherwise. As a result I feel I have a sort of attachment but not one of feeling but need instead.
I do see people as a convenience I think. I make friends with people who are useful to me. If they arn't useful to me I don't care about them. If they are useful to me I will try to help them, look after them etc. I'm not a bad person. I don't use them completely. I give back but in truth I know the reason I give back is because otherwise they wouldn't be useful to me. But isn't that what friendship is really about anyway? I have always beleived true friends are incredibly hard to find, if not impossible, and the only reason they exist is more through an ignorant loyalty developed over time.
As a Side note I would also like to point out I am dyslexic, dyscalcular and my eyes alternate, which has made reading very hard and as you have noticed my spelling is not the best. I try hard though and I feel my gramma is at least reasonable. Do not take it as a sign of my intellect or age. I am 19 as well if that is of any relevance.
As for my feelings with people. I have had 3 proper girl friends. I have never ever felt they were "the one" but I have always enjoyed their company and felt good while I was with them. As a result I tryed very hard for them because they made me feel good and most people cannot make me feel this way. After the break up, for all but one (which was a forced break up due to her parents hating me for not being muslim) I felt extreamly angry and wished they would die. I oftern spoke to others about the ways in which I wish they would die. The anger lasted for many many months but after I feel neutral to them once again. One of which out of the two that made me angry I am semi-friends with and the other I couldn't give a **** about and very much enjoy how misrible they both tend to look when they see me when they are with their boy friends as I think they feel they made a mistake.
Apart from with girl friends the only other feelings i've had towards people have been purely sexual or just enjoying talking to them because its amusing. They arn't feelings that last. My male "friends", if you could class them as that, I feel nothing for and are replacerble. The only problem is my very high standards of people do make them hard to replace, which means I must curb my tounge somewhat when they get on the wrong side of me. However, because I like to think I chose them well they do not oftern irritate me like most people.
While I may not neccarily care about their wellbeing past the point that if they were gone I would have to replace them I do still need people to hang about with and thus I am more friendly to them they I really feel inside. Infact my general person I portray is rarely, if ever, how I truely feel. I have only ever told two people about any of this before, both of which were girls who I had a sort of sexual relationship with. One of which I believe was indeed a sociopath as well. She was however no where close to my intelligence and I saw her games at every turn and turned them back on her. When she realised what was happening she became extremely aggressive and tryed to split me up from many people of my life and very nearly succeeded but unfortunately my silver tongue was alot more effective then hers. She is now going out with my "best friend", a guy I have known from birth and as a result is a very handy person to have in my life. I do not trust him in the slightest though.
Which brings me on to trust. While I trust no one for the obvious reason that humans are terribly flawed and sell information to the highest bidder to jump at social ladders all the time. I do "trust" people that I feel I have emotionally snared enough to not speak out against me. These people are always girls and they always "fancy" me in some way.
I do frequently flirt with women and am highly effective at it but I do not tend to go past them "wanting" me as I oftern find they start grating on me before I get to the sexual side. The few I have gone into more sexual encounters with have oftern been short lived when they start beleiving they mean more to me then they do.
I am sorry that what I have writen is very ab-lib and not very structured but I would have to write it in word and copy it over for that and I don't have word installed nor the time to do such things. I hope I have given you an indecation of who I am.
In truth I know who I am and I don't need someone to tell me as I am more then smart enough. I just don't fully know my lable and dislike that if labled a sociopath people assume I am evil as a result.
I have no intention of physicaly harming others and am quite passive in that way, though I do frequently consider the possibility of getting others to harm them for me I would never do it because I was brought up to know better, even if I do not actually care my self. This is what has brought me to the dilema I face at the moment. Truely, I would like to have a family and a normal life. In practice I know it is very likely not possible. Everyone else has pretty much said the only thing to do is to enjoy messing with people. While I do enjoy playing games with people, particularly girls, I do not consider it to be my long term source of enjoyment as I am a better person then that.
Thankyou anyway, I would quite appreciate to know what you actually think of me. I hope it is not too much of an unbarable wall of text.
Also might I point out that due to my disabilities when it comes to literacy and writing this at 3:20am there will be alot of mistakes in it and I hope that It is readerble as it is likely I will have missed out words in sentences.
You should find another label for yourself. You say you don't care yet how others view you is all important to you. Like stated many times on this site, by me for example, being a selfish ***** does not make you a sociopath, end of. Also your anger shows you DO care, you are not emotionally disconnected at all. You say "i wanted them dead" if i thought that strongly about someone, i would kill them and move on.
You remind of this Diego guy actually. You should find his post and see the resemblence and one particular commnet. "being an angry sheep does not make you a wolf".
If I were you, I would be quite mad that the doctor fed me to the wolves.
Here's your tarot card.
* Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
* Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
* Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
* Requires excessive admiration
* Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
* Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
* Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
* Is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her
* Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes.
* Surrender: Chooses critical partners and significant others; puts him- or herself down.
* Avoidance: Avoids sharing "shameful" thoughts and feelings with partners and significant others due to fear of rejection.
* Overcompensation: Behaves in a critical or superior way toward others; tries to come across as perfect.
* An oversensitive temperament at birth is the main symptomatic chronic form
* Overindulgence and overvaluation by parents
* Valued by parents as a means to regulate their own self-esteem
* Excessive admiration that is never balanced with realistic feedback
* Unpredictable or unreliable caregiving from parents
* Severe emotional abuse in childhood
* Being praised for perceived exceptional looks or talents by adults
* Excessive praise for good behaviors or excessive criticism for poor behaviors in childhood
(So take your pick if you want one of these but you can't have psychopath or sociopath.)
The following conditions commonly coexist (comorbid) with narcissistic personality disorder:
* Major depressive disorder
* Anorexia nervosa
* Substance-related disorders (especially cocaine)
* Histrionic personality disorder
* Borderline personality disorder
* Antisocial personality disorder
* Paranoid personality disorder
That's an interesting read, thankyou for posting it. You are helping me quite a bit to at least understand my self, even if I am a little confused as to what I would be called now. I do rack up alot of the "causes" you have listed. It doesn't bother me if I can't have sociopath because I would rather experience other things in life they can't anyway and if anything makes me feel better about my self. But what confuses me is my complete lack of compassion, attachment or guilt if I am not a sociopath?
The other poster picked up on the fact that I care about how people view me. Is it not reasonable to think that everything in society is made easyer if you look good? I do not neccesarily see it as a reason that I care about how people view me but more of a tool of how I get them to like me. If you see what I mean?
It's intresting how they stated as well that if I have overwelming anger and want them to die they would have just killed them. I don't really want to go to prison and at least was brought up better then to just aimlessly kill, even if I don't really care about the person. I feel like I have morals in the sence that I don't aimlessly treat people badly because it's not what you should do. But I wouldn't care about them if I did.
I do feel quite confused now. Thankyou for your reply either way.
So no guilt but you don't do things that you consider morally wrong? You really need to think for a minute here instead of contardict yourself in every sentence.
You enjoy being the center of attention, the perfect example of a narc. You live through others and the prospect of being alone terrifies you. Afterall, how can someone so awesome as you ever be alone. Also, you're not a passive person. You get agitated quite easily, you're just a *****, like every narc, a child afraid of abandonment.
You percieve my posts as agressive because you are used to others telling you how special you are, starting with your mother. You didn't come here to prove anything yet in every single post you boast about your attributes and excellence, what a laugh.
You are right though, you are not like me and i'm happy about that. If i was a spineless dependant coward i would be depressed too, but i'm not. :)
I find your posts quite intresting to read but you do have a habbit of skating around answers but not giving them so to speak. Im curious as to some of the things in your post which I think were aimed at me:
I cannot teach you the fundamentals of neuroscience if you do not have a stable structure of learning already established. Or rather. unless your mind is scientifically structured.. nothing I say will make sense to you as I cannot always relay the message to you in common talk and often must return to more scientific terminology and reasoning that your mind is unfamiliar with. Heh Hexi might just assume you are stupid because of your apparent egotistical downfalls. I just assume you are misguided.
The unconscious mind.. does not believe BS. That's why as a child you are so willing to accept the BS in the Bible and religion yet as you get older... your unconscious filters out all the BS. You stop believing in magic and crap that you can't see or you hesitate to do so simply because your mind is more unconsciously developed when you are older and it will not accept complete BS unless you are genetically compromised.
At the same time , the reason you are compelled to listen to me is because I am speaking to you with measurable amounts of structure and organization which your unconscious mind is stimulated by. I am a mind of reason and rational thought. Your unconscious mind functions just like I consciously appear to function.
Notice what I tell you is measurable. If you went to the bookstore at a local university... you too could get the same books of knowledge I have. I do not teach you a religion or philosophy of thought. I offer you true measurable knowledge. Which is the exciting part of all of this. You don't have to believe me. Simply pickup a neuroscience book and commit yourself to learning it. But it's not simple is it? Reading a book as such would crush your very perception of what reality is.
You are far more than your ego and I'm daring you to be more. The books are highly expensive but does brain science sound cheap or easy? Besides how important is knowledge to you? Do you really care why you think how you do or do you want to keep living in your hollow existance until one day you have an EMOTIONAL BREAKDOWN and become.. closer to who you really are inside.
(Here's a religious theory behind Conscious. This way you can still have your God but yet a better understanding of him)
I offer you the unlocking of your true self and what I offer you is measurable in real terms. It is not just how you will feel but it is what you will know and only when these 2 parts of you can become 1 do you experience real harmony and spiritual happiness. Oh and in knowledge there really isn't despair as completing your natural design is how you spiritually can achieve harmony and peace with both your outside self and your inside self. As you will know in body and mind that what you do is right and that guilt you sometimes get will never return to you.
God wants you to become one with yourself... it makes it easier for him to talk to you cause instead of your mind making all that noise.. it is listening and while the unconscious mind will always obey God.. the conscious mind will always rebel. Your vary nature of disobeying God is a DEMONstration of your ability to reject him and in doing so.. create your own suffering. As he is with you regardless if you are with him or not. Meaning.. he always speaks through unconscious suggestions but you don't listen to him.
Knowledge is the power to rock the very foundation of men who built their houses on something other than rock. I believe Jesus said something similar. Funny how I understand what he means both literally and metaphorically.
Zenemy, I can assure you I am far from stupid. I am also scientifically minded having always acceled in such subjects and am now in my second year of maths in uni. Though I do not have the background knowllage which would likely be needed either way. Misguided I could agree with possibly.
I am very much into learning things and frequently find my self up at 5am in the morning because I was reading something just to learn about it. However I am not going to be spending money on books when the internet is a vast resource which is free.
You have however, not answered my questions about your post.
His Narc attributes are well displayed.
Notice how he takes aggressive stances with no material value. "I could do something but I wont." Is a common boasting of Narcs. His ego has allowed him logical blindness and he continues to challenge in a manner to assert his value but because of his obvious differences.. Hexi and I are a ble to easily distinguish the difference between him and us. Our minds are controlled by reason where as his mind is fueled by negative emotions brought about by failed parents who improperly applied compasion to their child.
No doubt he had a parent smothering him with positively reinforced attention and always praising the insignificant things he did cause lets be real.. that parent was just impressed that this retard could do anything right as, more than likely, he developed at a slower rate compared to other children and was unable to achieve the things they could. His parents noticed that their child was inferior, so in an attempt to counter balance this obvious difference.. they pampered his ego until he was all like "I am powerful but no one else sees it."
I'm sorry.. were you trying to be passively hostile with me? I prefer the direct approach. Now try to recover but keep in mind that nothing you say to me is going to stop me from laughing at that child you are still showing me. Awww.. did I hurt your feelings and cause you emotional disturbance.
You must have confused me with Jesus or your Preacher or maybe your psychologist. Really I could tell you anything because Narcs are too stupid to actually look up information. They are nothing more than grown up children. You've all got a little Narc in you. It's that part of your ego that tells you to be insignificant and attempt to attack the emotions of others. Psychopaths can instantly distinguish the difference between themselves and these sad children and rapidly make attempts to disassociate as normal egos are so.. unorganized that they associate psychopaths with narcs and then they think "That psycho did this to me." But in reality.. it was just a Narc.
It's important to notice the mild differences. Once you understand the differences.. you'll understand why a psychopath is a relaxed predator a Narc is just a sheep making a lot of noise cause they have been terrible hurt and no one ever taught them how to properly express the emotions.
Directly ask me the question and I will directly answer it within the reason of neuroscience or I can give you more biblical expressions.. whatever pampers the fragile ego that is the Narc.
You should feel bad for Narcs.. they are hurt and alone and they need others to feel good about themselves.
I can help you. Come to my house. I'll beat the crap out of you so bad that you will have no choice but to give up these false illusions of superiority and face the truth... you are human, you care what others think, and how you are acting does not make you happy but rather imprisons you in a manner which brings misery to your life.
I have challenged your ego. For all you claim.. your words are hollow and you have no real wisdom. Math is a known science. You are not a scientist. You are a mathematician. Way to give up on your dreams. It's okay, Honey. Don't listen to the bad man. You are a sweet and smart child no matter what they say.
Right memories?! Right.... Think back.. family always told you you were special. how come no one else is seeing it? omg... omg... nervous breakdown.. in your future... just waiting to happen.. LOL
"And it all crashes down, and your break your crown, and you point your finger, but there's no one around."
David, that's just what Whitewolf does. Desperately tries to find some way he can say he's "superior". I'm not too sure why, maybe insecurities...?
Just try and ignore it when he does it, I don't think he quite realises he's doing it himself...
He obviously has no understanding of the very world around him; he claims to possess knowledge of certain subjects yet fails to provide when asked for some reason or another.
Well done on ignoring it, though.
im DOES thinking that you should all apologizes each other. if you doesnt apologizes then all WILL has sad mind and maybe not want POST here anymore? im DOES be sure that ZENEMY does tryes to help and maybe he does DO it wrong and i thinks he DOESNT should say mean THINGS like that. THATS why i does thinking that he should apologizes.
im DOES going to start agein from BEGINNING because i not posted in this topic before so:
I'm DOES thinking that HEXI DOES NOTS care what you thinks and I am of thinking that Zenemy DOES cares what you thinks but DOES NOT caresamoment later as he DOES NOTS HAS the emotional ability to maintain conscious thoughts. So EVEN though he DOES cares what YOU DO SAY.. he LOSES ability to MAINTAIN CARE so he does goes back to THINKING like HEXI DOES think NORMALS.
My ego tells me to strike you down. As you can see.. I am human. That attack had a lot more power available but my ego is compassionate enough not to destroy you on sight.. like Hexi might.
does you tryes to make FUN of me? i not understands why.
then MAYBE i does be wrong that you dident actually try to help and only did sayed mean THINGS to bully people and i does THINKS that does be bad thing to do. Maybe you not APOLOGIZES but why does you has so much angryness inside i only DOES tryes to help. Maybe i DOES can helps you too.. but you DOES needs tell what problem is.
All peoples DOES be special and i not think you need show how special you is because i thinks you is very SMART and not need show it by bully others. david does BE very good math person and you does be very good book person and hexi does SEES thruth in things so we does all be special and im does be very good in HELPING peoples. There does being very MANY other things like HONESTLY and COURAGE and things like THAT too.
if you DOES wants you can makes own topic to HELP you and i does will be there for you. You must trusts me. And if you DOES be even more angryness because i try help you then NOT let it go into insult other people you can INSULTS me but doesnt insults innocent peoples you does can LETS your angryness maybe insults me if you does HAS to.
We are two people divided by the same language.
It is sad that without more verbal or physical ques, I am unable to rely the message to you but that is a downfall of text communication. Which is why we should never base all our knowledge simply off the perception of one sense and use them all as we are often fooled by just trusting one sense. That's why I try to give you knowledge instead. Something you can measure for yourself.
i has ALSO learned that people does respects other peoples that is like THEMSELFS and also respects what DOES be unknown but peoples does not usually likes what they WAS before and so that be why also they not usually likes peoples that ARE like they was before.
I seem to be loosing my contributions before I post them. I was writting my opinion but I lost it so this time I will try to be "more" succinct.
I have been researching psycopathy for another purpose but I have come across some information about sociopathy that might be useful. Since I have been around psychologists and psychiatrists for a long time now, I can even have some helpful insight but I must tell you this: a forum is not the best place to seek an answer to such delicate matters. The first thing anyone should have posted here was "I can't tell for sure from what you have said and you should seek professional help". I'll give you my opinion to see if at least it abates your depressive state but be careful about what people reply: "a little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
The debate of whether or not a sociopath would care about being a sociopath is very relevent. As far as I can tell from my sources, sociopaths couldn't care less for their state of being and do not show any of the care you have showened for proper etiquette when talking to other people. No sociopath would ever say "thank you" or "please" in the way you have said it. Even if a sociopath had any problem with his behaviour, I profoundly doubt he would be depressed as you say you are.
You can still be a sociopath but you are probably under the influence of other disfunctional views of reality that are not so severe.
You yourself said you self-diagnosed the disease and not even psychiatrists do that in general: they know that self-diagnosing mental disorders is nearly impossible and very unwise. Professionals in the area, who suspect that they are lacking mental balance, always consult their peers for a third view opinion that they themselves cannot have.
Please, find yourself a good professional in the area: find one with who you can create a good therapeutic relation even if you have to try different persons.
Some people are just more distant and cold than others; some people had an infancy that didn't teach them the proper social skills to have a truly functional relation with others.
Think about it: do you go out of your way to break social rules? Do you hurt the people around you deliberatly? Did you have fun causing misery to others (to people or animals) while you were a child or a teenager?
There are many factors to take into account: you can still be a sociopath but you should definitely seek professional help.
First of all stop your recursive thoughts about the problem and try to reduce your anxiety. Seek help elsewhere.
I hope you find some peace about this subject soon.
-- What am I doing here? --
I am currently doing research on several topics for a few books and articles I am writing. I would like to make a positive contribution to fora (plural of "forum") about such topics in order to get constructive views on those matters for a better perspective on them. This is why I came here. I will not indulge myself in flamming and will not respond directly to any clearly non-constructive replies.
I have read some of Dr. Robert's responses to certain questions and I find them lacking and biased. Still, I truly wish to know what people who come here, and even Dr. Robert himself, think about my points of view for three reasons. First: I know I can, very easily, be wrong and I should keep an eye out for other opinions. Second: all points of view are important to have perspective on any matter, specially the ones one doesn't agree with. Third: wisdom can come from very strange places and one should not underestimate anyone as far as knowledge and wisdom are concerned.
Please, give me honest and constructive replies: I will return in kind.
"The slumber of reason creates monsters." - Goya
i does liked to say first: welcome to forums!!!!!!
it does be good to has new smart MIND here agein. This forums DOES has been living in mirror world some times now maybe you can takes forums BACKS to real world you does LOOKS like that kind of PERSON.
yours post does seems very good but i does asks this: what does HAPPENS if sociopath dosent exists? What does happens if there dosent be people who does be sociopaths realy and maybe there does only be people who does ignores feelings like you does can hears songs but you no wants to listens to them or dossent knows how to listens to song.
i'm not a socio but i recently met both a narc and a socio in the same context and the difference was very marked.
the socio was silently powerful, elusive and unpredictable, the narc was like a child who's buttons were easy to press, hissing and hating at anyone or anything that crossed his path. quite something and I desired to never meet another like him again.
i'll take a socio over a narc anyday. i'll take anyone over a narc anyday.
I always thought you were a Christian, Whitewolf, yet call the Bible "BS"?
I am also a self diagnosed sociopath and I don't want to be one either. I am suicidal but lack the guts to go thru with it. I hate living like this . my oldest daughter is just like me and hates herself. both my kids have cut me off. there is no help forme I am led to believe.