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Re: Does Dr. Robert make sense?

wait one more thing- he said somewhere that he cannot morally judge..( i think he said this about psychopaths, as they are this way NOT due to decisions...just formed) .
i am sure he said that- but if he said that, that is ridiculous!
first using his own logic, that his experiences made him who he is, and if they made him judgemental then so be it right?

Hello, Broyden, and welcome to the forum. I think the material quoted by Daniel and by Maria have made it clear that you failed to understand the views of mine which you then, having misunderstood them, criticized, so I will not belabor any of that, but I would like to address the statement of yours which I have quoted above.

Yes, it is true that I do not make moral judgments. I see nothing ridiculous about that at all. To me it seems clear that ultimately people are not "morally responsible" for their behavior since they do not have the capacity to choose it in the way that apparently you imagine they do. This does not argue against a system of laws and punishment at all, because the threat of punishment clearly is a deterrent to certain forms of behavior, as much for humans as for, for example, a dog, who will "choose" to heel because he has learned that failure to do so will result in a sharp tug on the choke collar. Yes, fear of punishment can deter behavior, but that does not prove that the person thus deterred has "chosen" to refrain from the behavior; the case might just as well be that the threat of punishment is just another factor in the panoply of influences--beginning with genetic endowment--the resultant of which is one or another behavior. I hope you are able to grasp that.
You speak in terms of logic, but seem to lack the talent for it. Here you say that "if his experiences made him who he is, and if they made him judgemental then so be it right?" But, Broyden, that is just the point, just the crux of the matter, my experiences have made me non-judgmental, and, having viewed the world from that non-judgmental p.o.v., I have seen how mechanical and unchosen most behavior really is, my own, quite often, included, and certainly, as I conclude from the anger and apparent fear underlying your posts, yours.
I certainly understand that this is new ground for you, and do not blame you for feeling threatened by these new ideas, but I advise you to think and try to understand challenging ideas before you attempt to shoot them down. It will save embarrassment, and you might even learn something.

Re: Does Dr. Robert make sense?

i posted a message above somewhere in response...
also just to add to that: regarding someone going to jail, yes i do follow you that jail adds to the person's experience, but when you add something like that, a person can change due to that experience.
this makes sense, but we are still human beings and everyday we make choices and i do agree with trying not to be judgemental, but to think we can simply erase it does not seem possible or wise - I mean honestly if Dalai Lama or some other unjudgemental person had to judge a murder trial, I do not see how he he could not take into account whether the person intended to kill someone out of self -defense or out of malice. this is what i mean by moral judgement and I just cannot fathom how all the meditation in the world can change what is human nature.

Re: Does Dr. Robert make sense?

Thanks for writing again with more information. I certainly was not accusing you of anything, and if you are not angry or upset, fine. So much the better.

I disagree with your idea that a psychologist should not discuss the psychology of public figures. This is done all the time. Once again, I did not ever say that Clinton is psychopathic. I said that I suspect him of it, and I gave reasons. Actually, many powerful people are psychopathic. Their psychopathy is responsible for their ability to get their way as easily as they do.

I think you should try to understand that laws may be based in part on morality, but that does not mean that an individual human being cannot be non-judgmental or even apply such laws without judging in terms of morality.

I don't know if the Lama is non-judgmental or not, but if he is, he could certainly apply laws without making moral judgments.

If my comments do not apply to you, or do not make sense, just forget them. I certainly can be mistaken. It happens often.

Be well.

Re: Does Dr. Robert make sense?

I get the feeling that either you do not understand anything about psychopathy or you intentionally wanted to misunderstand what the doc wrote about Clinton. Are you a major Bill Clinton fan? He could certainly be a total manipulator, and maybe you are one of his victims.

Re: Does Dr. Robert make sense?

In reading this entire thread, I see that Brodyn has really misunderstood entirely the idea of "choice," and "decision." I think it would help if she read this ask doctor robert page called Is It OK To Wonder What People Look Like Naked?". Obviously, Doctor Robert is accustomed to looking deeply into human drives and compulsions, and having done so has come to understand that "choice"is largely fantasy. I know Brodyn hates this idea, and seems afraid of it, but that might change if she opens her mind a bit.