We are just as logical as you.
It's just because you lack emotions, all you have is your logic, that's the only thing you have to fall back on. In reality, we are just as logical as you, if not more.

Imprisoned individuals don't have Mobile Phones or Computers just 1 Tv for the 5 of them to watch will all of 4 channels. OOOH! :-)

That is just your country, or do you actually think other penal systems are the same? You should check up on Finnish prisons, you will be appalled. :P

Some places on the web say Finnland has the death penalty, while others say you don't?

I'm sure you don't because European Law says:
1 Everyone has the right to life.
2 No one shall be condemned to the death penalty, or executed.
3 Everyone's right to life shall be protected by law.
Am I right?
Any Prison system that allow computers is obviously ****e.

No, we don't. Getting sentenced here is aking to a free holiday with restricted access to the outside. I mean... they have weekends out of prison, in some cases? W.T.F!

My older Sisters boyfriend was arrested in 2003 for chasing down the man who killed my nephews cat, and trying to push his eyes back into his head, then stomping on his body.
What did he get? 3 Years in an open prison where prisoners can visit relatives with just an electronic tag, and if they attempt to run away or commit another offence they would we given a life sentence.
In other words alot of trust is given to a man who repeatedly beat my sister.

If you don't mind, read this http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3286721.stm and tell me what you think about it. If you have the time, it's only 5 minutes.
Did it gross you out? or anything?
Thanks :D

So what's wrong with just logic? Anyway, if all we have is logic, shouldn't we be better at it?

Oh, no, wait. I think I see what you're getting at. You mean that you have more ways of looking at things, right? So when you have a decision to make, you can look at it from a logical standpoint or from an emotional one. This gives you more frames of reference than we have, and heightens the probability of you making the correct decision. I don't think that would necessarily make you more logical than us, though--just better at making good decisions. The question is, is that true? Can you really look at things from a completely logical standpoint?


Ew. That would not be my favorite meal.

No, not neccesarily.



Yes, well done! We can combine logic and morality to make some sort of super standpoint.
:D



Give me of an example in which empaths would combine morality and logic to come to a conclusion and I will tell you whether or not we can look at it more logically, or we look at it more morally. :-)

What's wrong with just logic?
96% of Serial killers are Psychopaths, if they had the ability to look at things morally as well as logically I am willing to bet that those killing would not of taken place. Psychopath's still have their Id which, as I explained, controls impulses, wants, urges etc.
Empaths have a stronger Super-Ego that manages to inhibit the biological instincts of the ID.
We still have an Ego just as affective as yours, and the Ego deals with logic and common sense etc.

PS.
I wasn't saying that all psychopaths are serial killers or "evil" I simply meant that psychopaths would be better of if they had our Moral Reasoning.

Not morality and logic. I said emotions and logic... didn't I? Anyway, that was what I meant. So if, say, you had to choose between saving your wife and saving a bunch of strangers, which would you pick? Logic says one person dying is better than lots of people dying. Emotions say saving your wife is the best thing to do. Combining emotions and logic to come to a conclusion in a situation like this would be tough. I think it would depend on the details; things like whether substitution was okay, etc. In any case, my question is whether or not you could seriously consider the logical alternative.


But if morality is logical, then shouldn't a person be able to work it out even if they're a psychopath? A logically reasoned morality should be just as effective as an emotionally reasoned one. If that's so, just logic should be fine, right?


So... do you think psychopaths could have moral reasoning, if they reasoned their way to logical moral principles? Or are some moral principles illogical?

True.
I would save my wife, love overcomes all else.
But, it's hard to say for sure, so many factors would contribute to my final decision.
Yes, I could consider the logical alternative, as I said, so many factors would contribute.

No, because logic isn't moral.

So... love overcomes logic? But not so much that you couldn't seriously consider sacrificing your wife to save others? *sigh* I don't get it. If you seriously considered it, wouldn't you do it? I guess it's because that option seems like the best to me that I can't understand someone not choosing it.... Do you think saving your wife instead of everybody else would be the best decision?


I know logic isn't moral, but surely that doesn't have to mean that morality isn't logical, does it? And if morality is logical, then it should be possible to work out morality logically... shouldn't it? Or would it just not be the same even if you could? If that's the case, then what is morality anyway? Isn't it something people work out or have worked into them as they grow up?


Drat. What's the closest you think a psychopath could get to that, then?

I would save my wife. I would kill myself to save what I love.
Yes, I do think saving my wife would be best, it would be a hard decision, but I would most likely choose my wife.

Morality is logical on some levels.... I am not saying psychopaths don't have morals, I'm just saying they have no Super-Ego or Conscience to enforce those morals.



I have no idea. There is a paper on it: Moral Unreason - The Case Of Psychopathy.

"A psychopath may demonstrate flaky reasoning and fail to see evident holes in his logic."

That is alot of what I see here...

That's noble. Sacrificing yourself for another human makes sense to me, if you think that person deserves to go on living. If you would kill yourself for your favorite rug or something, though, that would just weird me out.


Huh. I really can't understand that at all. Is it just because you don't know the other people? But that doesn't make their lives less valuable, surely....


Don't people disregard their morals and go against their conscience all the time, though? How does a conscience enforce a person's morals?


Thanks! I'll have to see if I can find it.


'Here'? Do you mean 'on this forum'?

P.S.


LOL. =D

I would sacrifice myself for my wife, and maybe a rug if it was blue. :)

It's not because I don't know the other people, it's because I love my wife with all my heart and soul.
To explain love to you... I could say it feels like a the largest feeling of attachment and a strong sense of attachment.

I can sympathize with psychopaths easily, regardless of whether or not they can return the feelings.
Just think of yorur situation, don't you ever wish you weren't psychopathic?

The reason you cannot love is that you lack Oxytocin, it's a neurotransmitter responsible for trust, love, anziety, social recognition and pair bonding.
It's released during many activities including but not limited to sex, and hugs! :)

We actually experience a lovely feeling when we give someone we love a hug, It's a feeling of warmth deep inside you, the srongest feeling of a sense of attachment That I've ever felt, a feeling that's not like anything experienced besides it. And you can never go through that.
I'm not trying to rub it in, simply state how I feel.

People do yes, only to find themselves forever tortured by the consciences overpowering emotional pull.

"Conscience is an internalized sense of right and wrong. It is a virtuous inner voice that unceasingly reminds us of our moral obligations and urges us to live up to them. A strong conscience enforces its moral judgments by rewarding good behavior with good feelings of pride and self- esteem, and it imposes penalties for bad behavior in the form of shame and guilt"

It enforces them using a sort of Pavlovian conditioning; by rewarding good behaviour with positive, good feelings that you enjoy and punishes bad behaviour with guilt, remorse, and the like.
It enforces them by constantly reminding us that our morals forbide a certain behaviour or action or that they welcome that action. Everytime we are faced with a decision in a milli-second we can sort of 'look it up' in our conscience to see whether it would be the best thing to do. Althought we don't look it up ourselves as much as it does it automatically.

For us, MDMA heightens love, empathy and our connection to others by stimulating serotonin 5-ht1a receptors, and releasing small ammounts of Oxytocin.
Oxytocin is known for 'Increasing trust and decreasing fear'. It's a handy thing to have.



If you were serious - save yourself some time: Moral Unreason - The Case of Psychopathy



Yes, I do see it on this forum. Thought you don't have to worry because I haven't seen it with you. :)



I know, I am an idiot. I actually asked an empath when was he diagnosed... lol

So it's because you don't love the other people, then? At least, not as much as your wife. So for you, the emotions you feel for people give those people value?


Attachment... so you feel bound to your wife emotionally--as though if she died, you would too. By saving her life, you feel like you're saving your own. Okay, I can understand that. And you would sacrifice yourself for your wife... is it love that makes you value her life more than your own? Or is she really more valuable (to the world, to your family, etc.)?


Well, for one thing, it's not certain that I am. I've never been to a psychiatrist or anything. My parents think I have Asperger's Syndrome. I do meet Dr. Saltzman's most important qualification, though. So I guess, for the purposes of this forum, I am. Anyway, I may get curious about certain emotions sometimes, but not enough to want to have them all the time.


That would explain a lot, actually.


Wow. Sounds awful. If I'm going to do the right thing, I'd rather do it without that hanging over my head.


Okay, so... it looks to me like he's saying that the case of the psychopath doesn't prove that emotions are better than logic, because even though psychopaths don't have emotions, they don't have a properly functioning logical capacity either. In other words, a psychopath doesn't make a good example of someone who uses pure logic. To quote Hexi:


Well, I haven't been on here very long yet. We may get there!

If I had to choose between 1. Killing my wife and saving 100,000 people I love the same ammount.
Or 2. Killing the 100,000 people I love to kill my wife
I would choose secret option 3. Killing myself and leaving the decision to fate.



Yes, partly. But it's not just that, that makes it sound selfish. I would kill myself to save my wife, or children, so no, it's not just that.
It's love. Love make her more valuable than me. Regardless of whether I loved a homeless man or the Queen -- Love would give more value to her life than mine.



That's only what happens when people disregard their emotions, their morals, and their conscience by doing the thing they know is bad and the wrong thing to do.



Exactly! Although a psychopath doesn't have emotions, that doesn't mean logic is stronger. That's just what they say as a means of making themselves appear better.
I read a book sponsored by Robert Hare the psychopath expert, in it it said that psychopaths create a "superiority complex" to protect themselves lest they realise the creatures they are and go, and quote, 'insane'.



:) Stay, you'll make this place better.

Weird thing, love. I still don't understand it completely... but, I think, a bit more than I did.


Yeah, but... if you do the right thing because you want to avoid punishment... even I do that.


I don't believe that's the case, but if it is, please don't damage my superiority complex! :)


:) Thanks.

We don't just do the right thing to avoid punishment, we do the right thing to acheive the good feelings.

We do the right thing because theres nothing more rewarding than knowing you've helped someone in need or that you've been truly altruistic.

All hail! :D

Basically we create our own set of morals, and those morals are enforced by our conscience. It's what keeps Emapths in 'social harmony'. It's what stops us from doing the things psychopaths are capabale of.

You're just stupid aren't you?! After all this time... you'd think we could drill it into your head. But nope. Toby saw mike myers first and thats where his first impression remains. And they wonder why we hate them. Them as in people with Tobys mentality ofcourse. Not all humans are so... boring and duel in existance. It's almost like they're just clones. You gotta wonder if they even have souls sometimes. But I'm decending from my point.

The point is this. You don't need to be emotional to make the right decisions in life. In fact I dare say it is easier to purswade you to violence than it is me. I am more controlled. My feelings do not disrupt me. My state of mind so calm and relaxed. Even as the works around me erupts. As if I am a ghost. I can see this world. I can experience it. But I can only witness the great sorrows of man. My virtue unwaivering.

When you get to Hell I want you to know it was I who ****ed you. I told you the Queen took focus away from God. I warned you and instead of consulting a nonbeitish church you chose ignorance.

Like did you know if people don't know of the Bible they are forgiven for their trespass because of their ignorance. But once they know of God to disobey him in this consistancy is to have "waivering faith" which is apparently far worse than being a nonbeliever.

I myself did in fact consult the church on pride and the queen. Southern Baptist agreed. Catholics thought I was talking about Mary at first and didn't want to touch it. LOL

Oh yes.. I go to church sometimes. I even go to anon support groups with one of my friends who just so happens to have my personality type. Sometimes it's hard to keep a straight face and sometimes it's just sad. These people around us... destroying eachothers feelings all the time! Teenage girls for instance. They shouldn't be allowed to influence eachother so much. Making eachother cry. Women are evil but so beautiful. And it's the ones that drive you crazy that make you feel most alive isn't it? LOL

I hope toby plays modern warefare two online. Not so I can get him. Just cause I know he's a noob and would get destroyed online. He can't even properly beat the game. Pacifists lack the hand to eye cordination and natural talent required to kick butt.

How's that 17.5% daily slave tax you Brits pay? Hold on... let me just twist that knife. 

The Queen doesn't take focous away from God.
I have attended church every sunday, almost without fail for 11 years, we're united under the Queen. She is not, and never will be an enemy of God.
She worships God herself, she blesses our soldiers.

I luuurve the way you believe in Hell...
Got a bible? Find the passage that explicitly mentions sinners dying and being sent to hell?

On the day of Armageddon the supporters of the Anti-Christ are sent to hell.
If you sinned for your entire life and refused to repent, when the day of judgement comes you wouldn't be sent into the Kingdom of God, you would simply be dead, 'Second Death' as the bible calls it.

Continue to hate me, go on, explicity disobey the commands of God. Fill yourself with hatred, I'll sit back and watch your soul burn.

You know? I did play World or Warfare Online, but my Xbox 360 got the red ring of death and I haven't bothered to buy a new one.

When I get another XBOX 360, and get some online credit, I'll let you know. :P I beat the game once. I just can't do it again. It's hard!

Catholics? They anger me. They talk of worshipping false idols yet they have their "saints" that they worship. Saints were just people.

You can't be serious. You are no better than a catholic. Thats why we beat you out of America. Cause you people.. are pretty much like I see Mormons. You have good intentions but you're just not right in the head.

I don't think I can sin. Not the way you see it.

Hate you? Why would you say that?

Swimming is fun.

You can sin. No-one is exempt of the ability to sin.
A true Christian wouldn't say the things you say about our country, or the things you say about our 'kind'.
I know I've said things too, but I try not to.

Why would I say that I think you hate me?
When talking of Empaths you said "And they wonder why we hate them." If you don't hate me you at least dislike me. I don't have time to hate people or even dislike them. I love everyone.

You can't get to me, stop trying to. It's wasting your precious (LOL!) time, if you want to do something dial it down a bit, If you're capable, which I think you are.

I suppose hate was the wrong word, but you don't exactly like me so, dislike.

A blind man yelling to a deaf man what the colour red is like, i love it!

It's like talking to a door! :)

Anyway Hexi, I am older than you - I have more wisdom. :D

Well... I have got my dad's NIV concordance, so... let's see. In Matthew 5:29-30, it looks like it says that sinners go to hell.
"If your [insert body part] causes you to sin, [insert method of removing said body part] and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell."
So if sinning doesn't make you go to hell, why go to such extreme measures to get rid of whatever makes you sin? I mean, I'm not an expert or anything, but this seems pretty simple.

"If your rumbling tummy is making you steal cookies from the cookie jar, eat some good food. It's better to fill up on stuff you don't like than to get a spanking."
Doesn't this sentence imply that people who steal cookies from the cookie jar get spanked?

This is where it gets confusing. - The bible mentions this while mentioning

"Apply your heart to instruction and your ears to words of knowledge. Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you punish him with the rod, he will not die. Punish him with the rod and save his soul from death."

And many more verses mentioning death if you're rejected and refuse to repent when your judged after death from this world.
It's called - The Second Death.

Another translation of said verse -

"You have to blind your right eye the moment you catch it in a lustful leer. You have to choose to live one-eyed or else be dumped on a moral trash pile. And you have to chop off your right hand the moment you notice it raised threateningly. Better a bloody stump than your entire being discarded for good in the dump."

This isn't from the Bible, btw.
There are many a metaphor in the Bible, I think by hell it doesn't mean our image of fire, demons, and the like.

But dump, would be a more accurate translation.
'Hell' in the bible is translated from 'Hades' which many people interpret as hell, when In fact it's the second death, the final death. :)

Okay, so it's not just the stick, you've also got the carrot. Hang on, let me see if I've got this straight... if I do something wrong, bad consequences will usually follow naturally. If I do something right, I usually get good consequences. That's probably the same for everybody. So empaths have an extra set of consequences, then--emotional ones. I suppose that would even things out... make you do the right thing even if the naturally occurring consequences aren't all that good? I can see how that would make life easier for the people around you, even if it was harder for you.


But wait, in order for that to work, wouldn't all empaths have to create more or less identical sets of morals? You couldn't have social harmony if, for example, my morals say it's okay to borrow things without asking and yours say you should always ask, could you?

Yes, we have emotional consequences. We hate to see people down and upset, we enjoy seeing them happy and joyful.



If our consciences and emotions didn't keep us in social harmony, walking down the street people would be rioting, fighting, stabbing eachother, stealing, murdering, raping etc.
And it's funny, because that was the one thing I said that was completely quoted...
"What is missing, in other words, are the very qualities that allow a human being to live in social harmony"

Psychopaths lack the qualities that allow them to live in social harmony, hence them having no problem killing, etc.

Yeah, I see that. It would seem that all empaths do have more or less identical sets of morals. I just don't really understand why. Could you explain?

If I'm honest I could steal something that's not mine and not feel much guilt at all where as most people do. I don't know why, I just don't feel guilt. But, I don't go around stealing myself because I understand how much upset would be inflicted upon the owner, and do not wish to cause such hurt.
I could never murder or anything in those realms. I would probably be destroyed by the guilt and end up killing myself.
I just look at certain acts and lable them 'bad' or 'good'. I don't know why or how I came to have those views, but I do. And they're something I've had since I can remember, and that's the same with most empaths.

I assume it's just a mix of Genetic factors, social norms and what my parents brought me up like.
If you hear of serial killers on the news, it's almost always
Bad Childhood
Abuse
Negelect
And that sort of thing. Alot of them don't have parent like figures to teach them what's right and wrong. But like I said, I could easily steal from shops, and not really care, or feel guilty whatsoever. I have no idea why, but I did use to steal quite a bit as a child, so maybe I got kind of desensitized to stealing. (That's the wrong kind of word, but the only one that fits)

The only few reasons I don't steal from shops are
because:
The Bible condemns stealing
I have A wife and kids (self explanatory)
I don't want to get caught. (It's an awful reason Lol)

It's got to just be completely huge mix of factors - genetic, social norms, parents, childhood peers, values etc.

Sorry I was so late on replying, it's on page 2 and I didn't see :)

Okay, so... the discrepancies in sets of morals are smoothed over by the way that empaths feel for each other. That makes sense, thanks.


It seems like a perfectly good reason to me. Maybe not a particularly unselfish one.... :)


Hm. Okay. (I kind of thought you might say "God created humans with certain basic morals" or something like that.)


That's okay, I understand. :) In future, though, you could try using Recent Posts for things like this. That would probably work.

You know, You could've just said it's selfish... ;)



I couldn't of worded that better myself. But, ofcourse, empaths can have consciences that don't work, Serial killers that are empaths can look into their conscience and not see anything wrong with the acts that they have or are commiting. But that's usually all down to abuse as a child, etc.



I am an odd sort of Christian, I don't say "God bless" on the end of all my posts, I think exorcisms are so laughable I nearly pee my pants when I see them on the TV.... :)

I do think that God created us and our minds and we have evolved over that time and the science behind our brains has kind of taken it from there... While most christians don't for some odd reason...
I also don't believe that psychopaths were sent from God to "get the weak" as if the Bible has taught us anything the weak are usually the best, or that's what I say to make myself feel better... ;)
And I don't believe God creates every one of us... I think that God created Adam/Eve and it went from there as the Bible teaches, but Whitewolf seems to think God spends his time moulding every one of us.... And thats proof that God makes psychopaths 'special' because he doesn't make mistakes... WTF? So God makes homosexuals the way they are? I expect you aren't really paying attention to much of this, I do go on... :)

Well, it might not be selfish if you didn't want to get caught because... um... because... you didn't want people to have to pay money to maintain you in jail? (Eheheh...) Ah, no, you're right, it's selfish. :)


As long as you're the kind of Christian who reads the Bible and truly tries to live the way it says, matters of form are unimportant. I mean, you might do some of the things stereotypical Christians do, but you'd do them because you meant them, not as a matter of form.


Probably because they figure God would have made humans as they should be from the start; no evolution necessary to perfect God's creation. That does seem like the reasoning they would use, don't you think?


Well, I don't know. It depends on what kind of weakness we're talking about. Physically weak people might tend to be stronger in some other area--spiritual, moral, that kind of thing--so being physically weak is probably not such a bad thing from a biblical perspective. Spiritual weakness, on the other hand.... Weaknesses in character are what psychopaths usually exploit, aren't they? 'Sent from God', though... *shrug* I dunno.


No, I read it all. It's always interesting to get an insight into someone else's head.

That's more like it! :)



I do read the bible. I actually converted to Christianity when I was 17 after I was bored and set myself the challenge to read the entire bible in 3 days and succeded. :)



I don't agree with that reasoning, but yes, It is the reasoning they'd use.



All types of weakness, mental, pyhsical, spirtual and moral.
So, If I may ask, what have you done that you aren't proud of? Ever exploited peoples weaknesses?



:)

Last time you were 16 and it took you 2 days. Is there a reason for lying?

Where did I say that? I must try and find that.
I was 16 and I set myself the challenge to read the Bible in 2 days, but read it in 3.
At the age of 17 about 3 weeks after I had read the Bible I converted to Christianity.

If I wanted to lie, I would tell you something more interesting than in exactly how many days I read the Bible, or what age I was...
I would say something like... I won the lottery... :)

Pff fine! But i'm on to you now!

Your welcome to read through my posts, old and new, cross examine them and look for inaccuracies, you won't find any. :)

Phew, that was close.... ;) Joking...

Of course I have! I like making people do what I want. I wouldn't say it's something I'm not proud of, though. It's interesting that you put those two questions together. (Not that it's not the sort of thing I'd expect, but it still jumps out at me.) It's like you're implying that I shouldn't be proud of exploiting peoples' weaknesses. Which I suppose you are. I won't answer the first question! :)

Or maybe you try to bring emotions to a place that is void of it, thus can't grasp the underlying logic? Also, which do you find more annoying? Imitators or narcissists? (here, have some "curve balls") :)

Right up untill no one is watching, to believe otherwise is delusional. I think morality is just something people claim to have to appear superior, to be "the bigger man". Take slavery for example. It wasn't morally wrong to have slaves in the day, untill it was. :) Society made slavery morally wrong.

EDIT: Which ties into conscience, which is have a fun theory about.

You're wrong.
I have morality and I am not lying.
Morals are real, and I still have them when 'no one is watching'.
Plenty of people thought slavery was wrong, even when the majority of people didn't.

You create your own morals, and your conscience inforces them. What's terrible about that? Oh that's right, I am "not free" because I have a mechanism that enforces what I believe in, what I desegnate as 'right' or 'wrong'.

Ahh, but now you are getting to the meat of it. Conscience enforces your morals. Where do these morals come from? My opinion is that they come from your initial "caregiver" you had as a small child and your conscience tells you, subconsciously, when you're doing something that would make you feel embarrassed or this "caregiver" would think is wrong, if he/she would be there to watch you. Note that this caregiver does not nescessarily mean your parent(s), it might be anyone from your early childhood and thus societys morals evolve and change due to influence. That is also why primitive tribes don't evolve, the population is too seclusive for change to enter the picture thus new ideas rarely appear.

I know where most of my morals come from, The Bible.

Divine Command.
So to me the phrase "charity is good" means exactly the same thing as phrases such as "God commands charity".
Go ahead, tell me I am brainwashed, that I have delegated the core part of how I live my life, but In the end, it's made me a better person, and only I know that.

It does, however, leave me with the Euthyphro dilemma - "Is an action morally good because God commands it, or does God command it because it is morally good?"

And when/where did you find your faith? Think real hard on this one and answer honestly, if at all possible.

When did I find my faith?

I was bored. I decided to set myself the challenge of reading the entire Bible in two days, I did. And I admired it's teaching so much I decided to follow them; to convert to Christianity.

When?
At age 16.
I know (Or At least I think I do) what you're going to say... "You must of had morals before then..."

I did, and I can only guess where they came from...

I'm don't care about punishment. I'm all about prevention. I don't care to stop a killer from killing twice. Simply kill him and be done with that. You ever seen a real prison? You don't send people there to rehabilitated. You fool. Your punishment jet makes them worse people. Instead kill them and let their death be a demonstration of what happens to murderers.

Extreme consequences for extreme people.

I know the mind of a psychopath. You do not. I know what works and what doesn't. Punishment won't change the behaviors. Once somene goes bad you put them down.

Honestly, I don't believe democracies are capable of advancing society at a rapid rate because they lack long term leaders. But people can't be trusted with power. Look at the Queen of England. Some woman held up like a false idol.

I laugh at Toby. He worships a false idol and claims to be a christian. Cause thats what the Queen is.. a false idol. Sitting in your money and in your homes for you to worship. Taking focus away from your God and redirecting it to the crown.

Something I see clear as day. Something a brainwashed Brit could never get.

Whitewolf - Again, you're thinking in the mind of a Psychopath.
I don't know how it 'feels' but I can comprehend how your mind works. But you cannot do the same with us.

We have different opinions, they're both valuable. Done.

What the hell? You think I worship the Queen? You think I pray to or visit churches that worship the Queen?

I don't worship the Queen of England, I have pride in our monarchy, but I do not worship her.

"Sitting in money"? Yes, because the Queen is a billionaire. -_-
You aren't a Christian, nor are you British, so you cannot really make much of an informed decision, or even take an educated guess.

I'm sitting here laughing at your two uses of "worship" and your three uses of "false idol".

I once asked Toby a question. If the Queen ordered you to kill 10,000 people... would you do it? He answered yes.

The Queen. A person of no significants yet lives like a God is percieved to. She is ruler over all she sees and everyone is her loyal subject. Because it's a great honor to have the queen even acknowledge your existance. Cause she is held up high. The British pride themselves on this. A Pride which is also a written sin.

If it takes great focus away from God.. it is a sin. It being something or someone. Because God is never second to anyone or anything. Not even the Queen of England.

I am not a Christian because of my loyalty to God over The Crown? I think not. I would never allow any one person to have such power over me that I would commit genocide against ten thousand. But you would.

Explain yourself. Where does national pride end? How many would you kill for the Queen of England? Hundred thousand? What about a million or millions. Afterall what's a million after you kill ten thousand.

Do tell me about your false God and how you would kill for her because of pride. It fits the definition of a false God to me.

If I had to choose between killing the Queen Of England or killing two homeless people I would choose the Queen.
I respect her, and have great pride in her, but I don't give anymore value to here life than I do yours.

I said I would kill the 10,000 because my wife was dying, and my children's lives were in danger.
What does that tell you? I love my wife and kids more than I respect the Queen.
That's it though, I respect her, and I have pride in her, I don't worship her.
Ever picked up a bible and had a read?
Idolotry is defined as the worship of any image, idea or object as opposed to God.
How many times do it need say it? I DON'T WORSHIP THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND

Tell me, besides baseless arguments, why do you dislike our Queen?

You're doubling back on statements you've already made.

Toby, the mere fact that I could get you to commit genocide to save your own family... is sad, unwise and dangerous. A person of such mentality should never be given power over the lives of others.

It's just my proof that your kind are all ugly inside. You'd all feed on eachother given enough emotional disturbance. Really not that much at all. How can I trust such a creature? Such a conditional creature. You really can't. Well not fully.

Thats why no matter how dissapointed I am in people.. it's not the end of the world for me. Like it is for you. Oh my family is away and I am alone. Sympathy please..

Pride is ignorant. Monarchys are relics of the midevil world. What purpose does your monad by serve besides national pride/looking stupid to the rest of the world? Do you think we are impressed?! We've never been impressed.

Also it's funny to ask an American why they don't like anything at all about England. We live a.. different way than you. We aren't loyal fools. Thats what makes us... US.

Btw. LOL @ u getting angry. I don't care about your queen... but you do. Don't you pride boy.

You've obviously never experience true love if you wouldn't do anything to save the one you love with all your heart.

No matter what you do, no matter what you say, I refuse to drop to your level.
I am not going to argue with you, it's not enjoyable, and doesn't get anyone anywhere.

I don't think I've ever met an American who doesn't like Britain... And I've met alot of Americans...
I don't have anything bad to say about them, we secretly mock some of them when they leave the office, but that's not because they're American, it's because they're stupid.
It's funny how you talk for your entire nation.

Our 'kind' live in harmony, look at the lives of your average psychopath, alone, unloved, uncared for and then look at ours, or even mine.
I never would've dreamed of becoming what I am today, and of having two wonderful children with my equally wonderful wife. :)

Mock me, argue with me, whatever, you can't penetrate my British Charm... ;)
And you'll never take down my pride, try as you may.

PS.
Sympathy for you? No.
Empathic Concern*? Yes! (*You might need a dictionary)
LOL :-)

Was it the first Rob Zombie Halloween or the Second one? Micheal Myers as a child is my sons best friends clone. No lie.. He sort of gave us the creeps for awhile. :)

I live in a state where they "use" the death penalty. The first time I knew that some one was going to be executed I couldn't sleep. They used to do them a minute after midnight. It honestly made me physically sick knowing this was going to happen. So many what if's?

Now if I were to personally witness a person doing these horrid things to an innocent person. I would have to agree they should be taken out. In some instances lethal injection is to easy for the pain they have inflicted. Lethal injection is morally correct supposedly and humane.

So I think I just contradicted myself in this post!! lol Hey man, I'm a women!! lol

Beheading, hanging, lethal injection, they can all go wrong. And they can all be used on innocent people - and they have been before, many times. For people who support the death penalty, that one fact should be what puts them off the idea. Innocent people losing their lives for the crimes they didn't commit.

Saudi Arabia - It still uses crucifixion. In the 21st century. Makes you sick doesn't it?
The Death Penalty is a barbaric act which has somehow managed to survive well into the 21st century.

I know how you must of felt, I made sure I was awake at 03:04 in the morning, much to the annoyance of my wife, so I could be up at the same time a British man with Bipolar Disorder was being beheaded in China because two men told him if he smuggled drugs into China, he would "save the world".

I am willing to bet my opinions would change if someone killed or tried to kill my wife, family or children.