Do I enjoy it? YES
Has it enriched my life? YES

I became a Christian because one day, while incredibly bored, I set myself the challenge of reading the entire bible in 3 days. I did. And I decideed then to become a Christian, after hearing the word of God
"So then faith [comes] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."(Romans 10:17)
This line couldn't illustrate what I mean any better.
I hesitate to add bible quotes; most people hate reading them. :D

I am taught throught my religion that the Bible is the word of God, perfect and without fault, So yes, I do believe that what I read in the Bible is absolute truth. I don't mind admitting that I don't know, you can't know everything in life, And that's why (I assume) many people convert to Christianity. As i've said before we are wired to seek answers to lifes questions, and religion answers many of those questions.
Didn't socrates object to democracy? (I'm not trying to take a shot at you, It's an actual question that I can't seem to get an answer too from anywhere)
:-)

I don't think I have asked this to you before, But do you believe in God, Ecce?

Puhleeze! Use as many Bible quotes as you like. I’m quite familiar with it myself, having grown up in a Christian home. I even attend a Christian church now myself.



Ok. You say this works for you and I’m certainly glad it has. I also notice that this is a perfect example of the dynamic I was referring to earlier. If you state that you believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God, then this belief automatically comes attached with its opposite, which is that the Bible is in fact the word of man and completely fallible. You see? So anyone who comes to you and states that opposite belief is in automatic conflict with you on some level. Your belief about the Bible needs defending, hence the presence of Christian apologists. Defending against whom? Why, secularists and skeptics and atheists and liberal Christians of course. There is no end to the list of people against whom a defense has to be constructed to “protect” this belief. All of which is ultimately fine. It is neither right nor wrong as far as I’m concerned. I’m just notating how this dynamic seems to appear and play itself out. Conflict must come into existence when a belief like this about the Bible is held. It starts at the level of friendly argument, which moves to the not so friendly argument, which in other circles and in some people, will escalate into verbal violence, which builds the bonfire in a select few for physical violence, which has all too often ended in all out war between civilizations. Behold, the power of belief! :-)



Um… I don’t know. I quickly Googled it and noticed that several places do say that he was against democracy, but the Wikipedia article also states that no one is sure about this.



No. I don’t believe in God, as in I don’t have faith that there is a supreme being out there who has written a holy scripture and has sent his son to die on a cross or has spoken specifically to certain men throughout history like Mohammed, etc. I used to, but I don’t anymore. I have come to see however that there is an infinite intelligence that appears as everything within itself. And if that doesn’t make sense to you, think of the writings of old time Christian mystics like Meister Eckhart or Zen Buddhist teachings and so on.

You attend church? Yet, you don't believe in God? Why? Just interested? :D

I have to say this - God didn't write the Bible, he doesn't have hands. No, I'm joking I know what you mean. :-)
And if you read the bible, Jesus didn't die on a cross. Crucifixion in that time would've been on an upward stake. Crosses as a use of crucifixion happenede much later. They still crucify people in Saudi Arabia, even to this day.

I don't like arguin with people. I like to debate, but often they'll just dismiss or laugh at the belief that I hold, And that, I don't like.

Do you believe in anything then? Afterlife? Evolution? Ghosts? Aliens? The supernatural? LOL
Or are you one of those people who don't mind admitting they just don't know, and probably never will?

For me God is reality. The Absolute is also the space within which reality arises. Reality is One. But these words don’t cover it. It’s been my experience that words cannot convey this, yet words are all we have. So yes, I use the conventional term God to describe this Absolute Reality because I get that it is a word most will understand, only from their own reference point. And I go to church now to be of service to the people there. I don’t have to coordinate my “beliefs” with others in order to love them or to help them, if I can. Love transcends belief systems of all kinds.



Then why debate them if you know in advance they will often respond in ways you don’t like?



I have beliefs you might say, but they don’t have me. Beliefs are thoughts and thoughts are like blades of grass to me, here today and gone tomorrow. Or more accurately, gone in the next millisecond. There isn’t any attempt to hold on to a particular set of thoughts and call that truth anymore. Reality is far bigger and wiser than any thought system can contain, in my experience.



Actually no, I’m not. It’s just that the known, the knower and the knowing are one. I imagine this sounds as if I am speaking in riddles, but I’m not. Ironically, I’m speaking literally.

You sound exactly like a SZ except you're not paranoid the government is out to get you. Just think about it Ecce... we are on the verge of your mental breakdown. Hold old are you? I hear taking LSD can draw out mental illnesses you may have gotten later in life anyway. So don't take it!!! LOL

If you are under 30... I'm excited! I'm witnessing the onset of SZ.

Your mind obviously lacks true organization or you wouldn't struggle to explain your thought structure. How long before that disorganization consumes your sanity?

For the record. I called it.

I'm not trying to make you said. Just excited to know I can research you before your fragile mind snaps like a twig and you become.. more reasonable in structure.

Let me know if you ever have... a moment of extreme clarity where everything just seems to snap into place and you finally "get it".

I like to believe that all people out there are not the same, That not all people will have the same knee-jerk response to the discussion of religion, and that one day I may find someone who doesn't say 'booooring' and start to argue when I talk of my beliefs.

How old are you? If you don't mind my asking?

Oh that's total crap.

I told you I was special and had to listen to your unknowledgable lecture about how I'm not. Whatever. We'll see who's crying in the corner ******* himself and who's killing all those Russians. Probably be in your nation... again. Trying to bail you losers out. Honestly... When are you ****** gonna learn how to fight proper? And if I hear even one person shout "tally ho" I'm going to collapse to the ground laughing.

I'm not saying that you aren't special, just not for the reasons you say, or so I think.

If I say something you start to dislike, don't continue to read. I'm not forcing you to.

Our nations has been invaded only twice. And neither times did you help. WW1 and WW2 - We fought on our own.
We can fight, we controlled your nation for a long time.

Tally-Ho? That's the best stereotype for British people America can come up with? Come On!
Tally-Ho is used mainly when Fox hunting, when a deer is spotted, and It's also used widely by NASA.

I don't mind that my opinions value is "null" to you - If you hate me that much, don't read my posts.

whitewolf don't hate you man.

No, we are the best of friends. :D
He might not hate me, but he doesn't like me.
And you know what? Meh.

Whitewolf, as you know because I’ve said it several times now, I don’t debate or argue. I won’t waste either of our time “defending” myself or trying to convince you of anything. I will suggest instead that you do some research on mystical literature from the various world religions, certain non-dual philosophies from the East in particular, and epistemological questions in philosophy. This stuff is hard to convey in general, especially to someone who has not done this kind of search. If you were also genuinely interested in understanding, you might want to consider relaxing your ideas about what you think is and isn’t possible. For you, the idea of oneness sounds absurd, even insane, much like the idea of unconditional love I imagine. Which is ironic for a theist. I suppose God’s unconditional love for you is as “schizo” as mine is, at least in your mind. Which, as I have also said repeatedly, is fine.

Toby, I’m in my mid 30’s. I was once a seeker. I sought the truth thru all sorts of isms and ologies, including atheistic materialism and had all kinds of experiences. As far as my stance in the world, belief systems aside, what I am left with is the wisdom of love and compassion for all. I know. It’s crazy to some and heretical to others. But oddly enough, I’m ok with that. I stopped needing other people’s respect ages ago.

You don't debate? How do you get anywhere?


LOVE, THE TRUE BELIEF by Brian Clement

"A life without love seems hardly worth living. It's so important for each of us to grasp the understanding of the depth of feeling that can be generated on all levels of life, through love."

Love should be the most important thing in everyones lives, as humans we spend most of our lives seeking love, Love is the foundation of all worthwhile activity.

Do you have self-love? Odd question, I know.

Whitewolf -
You don't like the way I quote things do you?
I found one more fitting to you...
“Be yourself, don't take anyone's ****, and never let them take you alive.” :D

Whoops! Forgot about this. For me, using debate as a means to get somewhere was a surefire way to get nowhere fast. In my own experience, debate has been used by debaters as a means of confirming what they already wish to believe and not as a means of finding clarity. I value internal clarity more than I value proving myself right.

Tell me, Ecce, have you found love? Do you have a wife, girlfriend, or kids? Or are you a virgin? :P British or American? Real first name, please? Thx

You are way to curious for your own good.
LOL

I “love” the quote Toby. It’s awesome and has the ring of truth. But then again, from a slightly different angle, from my own experience it isn’t possible to live without love. That, to me, would be like living without reality, which again, is impossible.

By the way, I also appreciate the display of your own wisdom in there Toby.



On the deepest level, there is nothing but love. But back to normal speak, yes, I suppose I do.

Psycho1 – with an auspicious name like that you won’t be surprised if I don’t give you very personal information. ;-) At least, not at this particular moment. I will say that I have experienced romantic love on several occasions, was married and am now divorced (learned LOADS from that experience), do not have any kids (that I know of) and, to move back into abnormal speak, love is not something you find. Love is what you are. As such love is far deeper than any romantic notions or feelings about it.

Thank you, I wish there were more people out there like you... ;)



Lol :D

It's hard to imagine a life completely void of love, but as you said, they've never experienced love so don't know otherwise and have never experienced any different...


Psycho1 - Odd choice of name... Conjures up all sorts of Hannibal Lecter type images...

LOL! Right? I realized, as my previous comment to Whitewolf indicated also, that I am speaking about things that frankly most people haven’t even begun to consider. What is obvious to me, after years of searching for something bedrock within religion and spirituality, is the exact opposite of obvious to most others. Hence the riddle-like speech. I apologize for that. I don’t speak of what I have seen much in my offline life for precisely this reason. I may be winding my commenting down on this forum because of this. I need to focus on embodying the peace and love I talk about here.

Don't apologize, I understand you! :D

I understand what you mean, while understanding what Whitewolf does...
I see why Whitewolf says that you speak in "riddle like speech", but also I know that although it sounds like riddles it is infact the literal truth as you see it.



:( I will miss your posts here if you leave, you're one of the good'uns. :D

Ah good. There isn’t any point in using guru-speak if no one understands, is there? There isn’t any ultimate point to using it at all, but again, that’s another story…

So you asked me why I go to church. Do you? Go to church I mean? I wonder how many Christians are out there who are like you. And by that I mean, per your own words, you group yourself in with the Protestants but you also know they don’t quite reflect everything you believe in. I say that because in one of your previous comments you say you don’t “specifically fit in with any religious group”. I told you why I don’t. Why don’t you?

Yes, I do attend a church, every sunday without fail.

Why don't I fit in with any religious group, do you mean?
I feel that a person should make their own informed decision and personal interpretation of Bible. Protestantism isn't for me, and I don't feel any specific religious group is. They all have at least one specific view on a subject that I disagree with. For example, I fell out with the preist over my opinion on abortion, I am pro-choice and he, was not.
Needless to say, I didn't feel welcome there anymore. :( LOL

Ecce, are you in Britain at the moment? Just curious, feel free to withhold it if you wish. :D

Yet you go to church faithfully. Interesting. Do you feel alienated at all when you go, or do you just enjoy what you are experiencing while you are there?

Nope, I’m not in Britain. I’m in America, land of the free, home of the brave.

I attend a protestant church because I feel protestantism is where I best fit in. Church allows me to feel I am closer to God, and participate in group prayer. Although I don't always feel completely comofortable, It's where I think I best fit in.

Great! And you didn't throw an insult at Britain?! Yay. :D

See, why would I throw stones at the UK? In fact, it's one of the countries I'd love to visit before my time on Earth is up. It's on my Bucket List.

The world is one great big ole family as far as I'm concerned!

Christian views aside, we are all supposed to of started out in Africa as one race, and then spread to the corners of the Earth, so yes we are one big family. We're all incestuous. :D

Thanks, most people upon hearing I'm from Britain, usually go on about how British accents sound and how **** my country is. It's one of the only things I let get to me too much.

First, let's define God as the thing which represents the divine to us mere mortals - in Platonic terms the ideal form of a human.

Next, let's consider that the appeal to a higher authority is one of humankind's strongest, albeit logically flawed, arguments. The concept of God is a very useful thing in a parent's or governmental type ruler's arsenal.

Finally, realize that the world is positively crawling with people and we've GOT to get along to have any kind of peaceful existence.

So, God is very real.

He is the concept of something better than myself to which I aspire to become like, knowing that I will fail but recognizing that the closer I get to this ideal, the better a human I will be.

He is the measure by which you reflect upon your life on your deathbed so that you can die peacefully, knowing you have led a "good" life.

He is the example by which you pattern your behaviour governing interaction with other humans.

He is present in every culture and every civilization since time began. He is at once a creation of our own invention and more than any of us could ever be.



I could have written just that, verbatim.