In my reply to another post—one by Mark—I also added some words for you. I said this:
Although I disagree with almost everything Jere has contributed to this forum,
I do agree with him on this point. A psychopath cannot be helped to
change by your love and affection which, as I have written on the
website, will only be perceived as weakness. The best thing to do, in
my view, is to let this man go his own way, and you find a better
companion for yourself.
By the way, Jere, some contributers to the forum have called you
"stupid." I would not presume to say that you are
stupid--in fact you do not seem stupid--but you certainly are
ignorant, and you are so ignorant that you don't even know how
much you don't know. Your posts are filled with misinformation, but
to take just one example, you said that a psychopath is someone who
says one thing and does another. Totally wrong. That person is
a hypocrite, not a psychopath. A psychopath is a person
incapable of guilt. That's all. That is the definition of
Not feeling guilt, the psychopath has no basis for compassion either, which is why questions about compassion seem to arise frequently in letters to me about psychopathy. And you seem to lack compassion yourself. I find it comically
absurd that you would claim to be a follower of a man like Jesus
whose very message was love, forgiveness, and compassion, and then
express so much hatred of psychopaths. Whatever happened to "Turn
the other cheek," or "Forgive them for they know not what
As another contributor to the forum pointed out, psychopaths do not
choose their personalities any more than you got to choose
yours. That is why I write back to my psychopathic questioners
nonjudgmentally in the same way I write to everyone who asks me for
help. I know that all of us humans are as we are, not because we
chose to be this way but because we we born with certain
tendencies, and then met people and events in the world which
influenced our initial tendencies. The combination of innate
temperament along with physical body, modified by people and events
is our personality, and everyone is different. None of this is
anyone's fault, and none of it is chosen. It comes upon us like fate.
That is why we must meet our fellow beings with charity and
compassion, not anger and hatred. Jesus knew that, why don't you?
Your hatred and your angry expression of it does not speak well for your
religious claims. I would think that someone like you who claims to
have found the real God, and who claims to be comforted by that God,
would be happy, relaxed, compassionate, and extremely loving towards
others, including psychopaths all of whom, after all, are "God's children" (unless you are more of the "smite those sinners" type of Bible head). I fail to see any of those kind, compassionate qualities
in your posts. Therefore, in my view, your claims to be religious seem to be little more than
wishful thinking. You don't seem to know the first thing about Jesus'
message. A fine Christian you are!
You, Jere, are the only person who has used this forum to voice hatred. All the other writers seem to understand that this is a place to comment and ask questions with a view towards expanding our horizons of understanding, not a platform for voicing bigotry such as yours. Shame on you for spreading this kind of hatred!
Maybe if you can get your head out of the Bible for a while you can do some other reading and try to dispel some of the pitiful ignorance you
have been pouring out upon your fellow beings.
I guess the initial stumbling stones in your Unintelectual site ! 1. your disrepect of religion thats a choice! 2. Your Insane idea that a sociopath has a positive, helpfull ,place in society!
Oh I was born a pedifile it's not my fault! Attitude?
There are Choices everyone makes choices every day! We are not programmed robots or conditioned slaves!
Jesus stood in front of the wisest People of his time! His own Tribe and the Roman Impire. His own People the elders and the educated! The Intelectuals! And they crucified Him! Do you know how Crucifition kills? You are suffocated by your own body weight slowly!
I started here with a simple Question.And my reasoning for asking it . It's ok not to answer! I'll show you the love.
I don't hate the Psycopath! I have the notion that they cannot function any other way, they can't rewire their brains on their own.
My Point would be that the Misery, RAPE ,and devistation that they cause is Criminal!
The Inuat Tribe was asked if they had people of this nature? Yes. And what do you do with them? Someone pushes them off the ice when no one is looking!
Ok see if I got the dr. right? We are a product of nature and nurture, incapable of choice! No Good No EVIL we just are. So let us be. Because of fate.
That is pure Genious!
Excuse me Dr. are you kidding me with this answer? I'm a victim of several psychopaths destroying my career and destroying my personal life. I have to forgive because I am a Christian, doesn't mean that they are RIGHT AND JUST in what they did to me. Anti-social personalities use people for what they can get, discard them and then they are off to play, use and destroy the next target.
All those that destroyed my life as I knew it were over the age of 50. What you said to Jere is that these folks arrogant and ruthless way of treating people is beyond their control? If that is true, why teach right from wrong in the church settings, school settings, work environment, government, legal system? If their ruthlessness for disregarding harmony in life is beyond their control, then I would intelligently think they deserve to be sent to prison for the remainder of their days.
I have a question for you Doctor.
Did you ever get harmed by a psychopathic personality?
Re: sociopathic pain
My website and this forum are not about the legal system or about what some church tries to teach about the difference between right and wrong (which, so often, they get wrong anyway), or whether someone has ever been hurt by a psychopath.
Some of you faith heads are coming off as totally judgmental. Whatever happened to "Judge not lest you be judged."? You quote Biblical words when it suits your purposes (mostly maintaining a feeling of superiority), and ignore them when it doesn't.
My point is not that a psychopath is necessarily a "good person," but that psychopathy is an inborn psychological trait, and so is best seen, understood, and dealt with by means of compassion, not hatred.
I often counsel people to stop trying to have intimate relationships with psychopathic types because disappointment or worse is bound to ensue, but that does not mean condemning all psychopaths as "evil," as Jere wanted to do. What in you is evil, Jere? How about coming clean about that before condemning others?
For once in your life, Wini, how about dropping the moral judgments (which aren't even yours, but simply imitation of words you have heard), and trying to see people and things as they really are?
Yes, Jere, a pedophile is born with that inclination, and then confirmed in that behavior by outside influences beyond his or her control, and so, ultimately is not responsible for his or her behavior. That doesn't mean that we should not have laws against child molestation, or that such people should not be incarcerated in order to keep them away from children, but simply that such people need understanding and compassion just as religious bigots need understanding and compassion, not condemnation.
Can you guys get through one day without condemning and judging? Who made you the judge of all behavior? As long as you continue to judge, you will understand nothing about people, nothing about life, just nothing.
And, yes, Wini, I have been hurt by psychopathic behavior, and non-psychopathic behavior. Part of being in the world involves being hurt (as well as helped) by others. Get used to it.
Doctor, I have never destroyed another person career or personal life. Period. I may have had disagreements with others, but that is as far as it got. I guess you can chalk it up that we agreed to disagree.
I don't believe all others should believe what I believe. I just ask that they understand what I believe and I will give them the same in return.
I don't know if I said this on this forum, but how many times do I have to keep making lemonade out of lemons that come into my life, do what they want, take what they want.... and down the path of life they go? They know darn well if anyone does care for what they did in their life, take them to court. What if you are left with nothing to pay for an attorney? That's what happened in my life? I could afford the attorney who sold me out in favor of making deals for himself at my expense for what happened at work. I was left penniless with what happened in my personal life and the legal system doesn't care, no matter how much he stole. If you can't afford an attorney to go to court, you have no rights today.
As far as Biblical passages that you quoted, real easy when you are sitting on the fence dangling your feet in the water, jump into the depth of being consumed by a psychopath(s) and then tell me how you feel. Forgiveness is for the victim, not the perp of these horrific events. Forgiveness towards them takes many 1000s of hours for the victim to release them of what they did to others, if they can release it. Take example Ted Bundy. Do you think all the victim's families have forgiven him for wanting to do his damage in their lives. Do you think Laci Petersen's family is healed by the likes of Scott?
Just because we are survivors and turn the other cheek, doesn't mean we forget ... nor do we feel that psychopathic personalities are productive in society, unless you consider the CEO's, the Wallstreeter's, the Leona Hemsley's, the mortgage lenders of the world are beneficial towards their fellow man.
I asked you if you were every victimized by a psychopathic personality. I have yet to see your answer. If you answered already, I will look for it. If not, big difference talking with a healed survivor, versus ensuring everyone love them. I do not believe they were born this way. I believe that they took the easy way out in life from an early age ... lying to their parents/caretakers when they did something and the parents believed their lies and never challenged them to ensure they did said productive positive, righteous step (e.g. fork in the road theory).
From then on, it was lies and deceptions that ruled their life ... not fair play and righteousness.
For my answer to your question, just look at the last lines of the post just above yours.
As far as choosing to take the easy way out, at what age was that decision made? One month, two months, one year old, two years old? When?
Obviously you are wounded, do not feel that your wounds have been healed sufficiently for you to forgive the person you feel abused you, or even to forgive yourself for being fooled so easily. You still feel angry, and I can empathize with that of course. I am sorry for your suffering.
But this forum is not a place to discuss whether psychopaths are "good" or "bad." I will leave that kind of judgment to you and Jere who seem so sure of yourselves and the absolute unquestionability of your religious mythology. And don't even bother to get into whether abortion is "good" or "bad," or if gays and lesbians are born that way or if their sexuality is just lifestyle choice. I don't want to hear it, and I don't want you to clog up this forum with any such nonsense. That is why I had to remove some of your previous posts with all the Bible quotations. Deadly stuff!
Here we discuss psychology, relationships, problems in living, mental illness, depression, sexuality, child development, etc. Things like that. The naive theology, along with your open-and-shut version of morality that you imagine comes from the pages of the Bible and gets its absolute authority there, belongs in another forum where perhaps it will be better received.
By the way, in my experience, forgiveness does not mean endorsing or condoning the actions of the supposed perpetrator or violater. Forgiveness comes with the understanding that people usually are not in full control of what they do--if they ever are--and that what we call "choice" may have little or no actual choosing involved in it. This understanding comes more readily to people if they will have the courage to observe themselves nonjudgmentally and with no blame--just looking and seeing how one really is--not what one should be, but what one really is. That kind of nonjudmental self-observation may help to reveal how our thoughts just seem to come from nowhere, and how many strange ideas and passionate desires seem to reside in that mysterious, uncontrollable stream of consciousness.
Try it sometime. You may find forgiving a bit easier if you do.
Good in theory. You obviously have never experienced having been touch by a psychopath who destroyed your life.
Good for you. I however, don't think those that haven't felt their wrath see or even know the big picture. Just getting your degree doesn't make you an expert. It just gives you a license to practice in the dark.
Don't get me wrong. I'm grateful that you and others haven't been hurt or destroyed by them. But, I think those of us that have been injured by them have a right to voice our opinions. But, since this is your site and you are choosing to keep people in the dark for your false beliefs... don't worry, I won't be blogging any more. You can keep half of the story perpetuated.
P.S. My bosses who destroyed my career have higher medical degrees than you. Just thought I'd let you know who you are so proud to be standing with.
Maybe I should have phrased my question, did you get DESTROYED by a psychopath you met on your path through life. Big difference being hurt versus being DESTROYED.
What you preach is not to judge because these folks aren't responsible for their own behaviors or actions is wrong, wrong, wrong. You are babysitting and that's not what we need in the world ... to babysit those that don't want to play by anyone's rules except their own. And they aren't just deceivers as you pointed out to Jere. Deception is part of their manipulation techniques to lull unsuspecting others to trust them so they can clock you anyway they want, whenever they want.
Instead of believing all your nonsense techniques made by man and their ego, why don't you learn from experience of survivors as well instead of just fluffing the egos of those that could give a DANG about anyone else while sucking up oxygen.
You sir are a hipocrite and a danger to society as a whole. Forgive this forgive that. God judges man, humans have to put up with their bad behaviors while they take take take from others or heaven forbid, take another's life.
You are given Free Will ! I will be the last to deni it from you!"
If I am 'given' free will, then how did I choose it of my own free volition? And if I don't 'choose' it, how can I be said to be responsible for it? Responsible for what I do with my free will?
"Dr. with all due respect are you a Psycopath? I ask because , Psycopaths are very intelegent yet lack Concience and remorse They only mimic emotions. Human Parasites, Chamelions. You said there is a place in society for these people. Yet you see where our economy and society have progressed??? I guess for you the human condition is a random act in nothingness ! There is no good or bad , Evil or goodness and Love no reason for faith in a Higher power ! "
1. When did the good Dr. ever claim that we were progressing, or indeed regressing as soceity?
2. That the doctor said that our society finds a place for the sociopath, does not mean he said that it is GOOD that society finds such a place.
3. Higher power? Faith? Please define what you mean by these words. Do not assume they are obvious to your readers.
"Sad! no ultimate goal but Get as much as you can while the getting is good regardless of the cost to anyone or others. Profit! Greed! Deciet! Lies! Manipulation at your higher level!"
1a. I would be interested to see where exactly Dr. Robert has espoused this behaviour. It sounds psychopathic. I thought the Dr. had been most clear on his views on this kind of behaviour, and why it is not acceptable (which does not mean that we cannot at the same time treat the people who have been conditioned to feel this way, probably from an upbringing similar to your own, with compassion)
"Organized Religion has done many good things but if your focus is on human error and misunderstanding in the churches then I guess your the authority!"
1b. So you admit that human error and misunderstanding have arisen from organised religion. How, then, is one to accept it as being the mouthpiece of that which is perfect?
2b. If all organised religions have led to human error and misunderstanding, how are we to know which is correct? After all, surly only one of them is correct, or none of them are.
"This country USA was founded because of the desire for religious freedom! Regardless of what Thomas Jefferson said. You r Quotes of the Brillant people only serve to alainate you from the truth! Science is not The Creator only apart of the whole picture. Take the Soul out of Mankind or hide it so deep in the mind that it's not heard anymore! BAAM! Physcopaths, Sociopaths, Narsisssists, MONSTERS! Ever had a Brain scan?"
1c. The good Dr. does not live in the USA anymore.
2c. Who said science had the whole picture? Where exactly does the Dr. say this?
3c. I find it funny how you seem to know what the 'truth' is, yet don't see fit to grace us with it. How unChristain of you !(I am assuming that you consider yourself to be Christian here. Hey, its how your country was founded, right? Religious freedom as long as your White? But Native American or African? **** you, get your slave ass to OUR Church. Ah, Freedom!)
"Seems to me if you really wanted to help society You might concentrate your attention on Helping these people instead of copping out that there is no help, How friggining convient for your profession!"
1d. I am at a loss as to how you can view this website as anything but an attempt to help people
2d. You seem to have read only the articles on socio/psychopathy and assumed that they are the full extent of the wealth of compassionate human interaction available to you here. I suggest you keep reading.
3d. The doctor has often expressed disdain for the average way his profession is practised. Or do you think all shrinks are the same? Maybe there's a conspiracy!
"Ever think? Why is it that we as a country can afford to police others help build space stations. Spend 350,000.00 $ on a photo! and still have families forced out of their homes, homeless , hungry people? Why is that?"
1e. I often wonder about that too. Now what in a flying **** does this have to with Dr. Robert? DOC, DID YOU CAUSE THE FINACIAL CRISIS? I knew it, it was the psychocapitalistthearipist conspiracy all along! :)
To summarise Jere - You have not read anything on this website, you have instead ran your eyes down the page, found a few sentences and buzzwords that tickled you, and constructed a jumble of hard to follow words to strike back at a position that is not espoused by Dr. Robert nor, I suspect, by anyone. I wish there was something I could say to you, but as you seem to care little for constructing a coherent argument, let alone spelling, I feel it would be a waste of words. What, exactly, is your argument? What are you trying to say? I hate to say it, but I think your post is just a case of righteous indignation, you spouting what you feel from your own value system is expected of you, so you can feel as though you are living up to your own ideal.
It is very sad to see how much hatred and anger are manifested in your self-righteous and insulting replies.
Please do us all a favor and find yourself a better place where to rant and exhibit your sour attitude. It is obvious that you are not looking for answers but for assurance of your right to be angry and resentful. Truth is you have the right to be angry; someone seems to have hurt you profusely. But why not direct it in a way that might help you get rid of it, and not toward others who have done nothing wrong to you? Maybe you just find it easier to judge and insult others rather than facing what you feel?
If what you want is help, look for it...and be prepared for it not to be that easy!! but if what you are looking for is a "fight" there are better places for you. I am sorry to tell you but life has nothing to do with fairness or possessing "the truth". We live and experience what we must. If you ever find "the truth" I have to assume you must be dead.
Have a nice recovery and let go.
hi all! jere... I am a sociopath. oogly boogly boo. I don't molest children. I don't think about molesting children. "pedophile" is not a synonym for "socipath" neither is "serial killer" "evil" or "monster". their are many degrees of good people and bad people. and their are sociopaths all along that spectrum. that being said. when a sociopath is bad, they have the potential to be really bad. I can tell that your experience with one has been terrible and I apologize on their behalf. at the same time it is a safe bet that someone you greatly admire is a sociopath. some of your favorite celebrities, actors, musicians sports figures, political figures are most likely sociopaths. only someone that truly understands the condition can point one out.
If you think its easy being a sociopath, your wrong, regardless of good or bad, we are lonely. we always will be, we can't love, we lack the ability, we can fool ourselves into thinking we can. but we can't. I'm not telling you to apologize, I'm just saying the last thing that I need to read is that I'm evil. I WANT HELP. as do many of us on this website, and to tell a sociopath that they are evil is just fueling the fire.
I am also a sociopath and really have no conscience, but for some reason I try to keep myself under control. I am not really afraid of going to jail or prison, but I still like to follow laws and customs, mostly so I am not hassled by anyone I guess. I like to blend in, so I end up doing very little harm if any. I know that there are other psychopaths like me, and Dr. Robert is the only authority I have ever found who recognizes that psychopaths come in different flavors, and it is wrong to blame all psychopaths for the really bad misdeeds and crimes of a few. Psychopaths did not choose to be the way they are, even though some of them dont mind being the way they are. And some of us do mind the way we are, we would like to be able to love, but we just cant even if we try. We are just born this way, I believe, just like gays are born gay, not made gay. Thanks doctor. I love your site.
You stated that you can identify a fellow sociopath. I'm interested in which celebrities, in your opinion, are sociopaths.
If I were a sociopath, I would be in pain. Pain from reading Wini and Jere’s posts in this thread. Those posts from the Wonder Twins were the some of the most asinine comments I have ever had the displeasure of reading on this forum. Religion and/or emotion fueled stupidity (am I being redundant?) annoys me. I know. It’s a weakness and I’m working on it.
A word to the wise. Folks, stop thinking of yourself as a victim and maybe you’ll have an easier time of it. So many of you are slaves to your emotions. I’m not advocating that you stop feeling because that is impossible. Merely stop believing that you need to do something or live a certain way because you feel it. Listen to your brains more and your feelings less. You will find yourself in situations like the OP’s less often. Just a thought…
I hate ******s cause they steal, smell bad, and they're all rapists.
Now replace "******s" with "psychopaths" or "witches". Do you understand the fallacy?
Can I be in your neocon republican gang?! That way we can march around the middleeast butchering innocent people in the name of our republican superiority.
My whole life has been a lie told to me. I have suffered cruelties that I have no doubt would shatter your fragile existance and all the suffering I endured was inflicted... by your kind. Not a psychopath. So to me... you are the monster you fear and your ugly inside...
You'll never have revenge. Those who seek revenge are destroyed by themselves in an attempt to destroy others.
You hate who? All I got was *****s...
I can't say in English but...．名はこなす。
It may come interesting for people to know but I don't believe in racisum. It has never made sense to me. I do believe in steriotypes but not literally. But racisum is the same fallacy as witch hunting, religious prosecution, closedminded think... It's all the same and it's all a strong aspect of having emotional minds. Emotion often drifts away from logic and reason. Crimes of passion ect.