Some Christians think that the gaining of their salvation is, in part, a human achievement. Other Christians think that the maintaining of their salvation is, in part, a human achievement. Yet other Christians think that both the gaining and the maintaining of their salvation is, in part, a human achievement. Even though it be ever so small, many Christians think that their part (which becomes the most important part) is absolutely necessary for the success of their salvation. God’s part, they think, is not sufficient.

What everyone needs most is a willing heart and a change in their stubborn will. But many Christians think that at that point, just when we need Him the most, God lets us down. They think that He will not grant anyone a willing heart or effect a change in their stubborn will. This is something, they think, that they must supply on their own.

Even if we have been graced to come to Jesus, we tend to suppose that this was thanks to ourselves. Indeed, many seem to become much more proud and self reliant after “conversion” than ever before. And they seek to cover this up through much ill-disguised religious parlance in which it is true that they do give much, but certainly not all the credit to God. For example, “The Lord did it all, after I let Him.” or “I could never be where I am today without His assistance.”

This increase in pride is the result of having been subjected to such an abundance of human-independence teaching in an atmosphere in which it is continuously encouraged and reinforced, verified and justified with much approbation and exaltation.

After all, such believers are sure that they, unlike others, have “made their decision for Christ.” And, they say, this has not occurred in the grace of God as a result of their having been chosen before the disruption of the world (even if the Scriptures do say so), but is the result and is thanks to their very own decision. Though others may far excel them in lesser things, when it comes to what is most important, they think it is obvious that they are superior. They think, “At least I was willing and sufficiently disciplined, for when it mattered the most I did the right thing and the switch got thrown, so people like me will go up to heaven while everyone else will go down to hell.”

Just think of it. Picture this type of self-help salvation and pride. For all eternity (or at least for the ages) they will be able to say, “All those miserable sinners burning in hell could have gone to heaven too. Certainly the work of Christ saved no one at all. It wasn’t supposed to. All it did was make salvation possible. Besides, every one of those sinners deserves to be in everlasting burning, for unlike me, they didn’t do what they should have and could have. And here I am in eternal bliss, perfectly good and perfectly happy, even though billions of my fellow creatures are perfectly miserable and doomed to stay that way forever (or at least for the ages). Yet in the end I only got here myself because of what I did, not because of the sacrifice of Christ. I chose to meet God’s demands for His (so-called) free gift and I did so. I wasn’t given any special grace. It wasn’t any easier for me than for anyone else. It’s too late now anyway so let them burn. Too bad for them, but not for me. I’m happy and so is God. In fact we’re all happy here.”

You see, that’s the ultimate selfishness of that view and that’s what it leads to. One can only avoid boasting in self by truly ceasing to believe things and say things that are inherently of a boastful nature.

It is only the word of the cross that effectively and wisely trains us in this true humility so that “if anyone is boasting, in the Lord let him be boasting,” as Paul says. It is an empty gesture to go through the motions of giving all the glory to God, while at the same time continually believing that good decisions and acts are things which ultimately owe their existence to one’s own self, God having but made them possible. May He enlighten us to see truly that it is “in the grace of God that I am what I am.”

After thought. Since the salvation of even one soul is 100% by God’s grace plus nothing, the salvation of all souls will be no problem for God at all according to His sovereign perfect timing for each individual.

November 2, 2007

Dear Rodger Tutt,

In response to this letter, I for the most part agree with your view on the selfish nature found among mainstream Christians. I am not such an individual that wishes for nor openly condemns another by preaching hell and condemnation. But I am still very much a Godfearing man who knows well the potential hazards and repercussions of willful sin. The Bible teaches us that there are indeed consequences that befall us because of various levels of sin. Paul even eluded to a sin that leads to death and warned us not to pray for such an individual when he is corrupting the congregations.

Additionally, Jesus made it clear that blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is never forgiven. How do you account for these teachings which are literally and correctly understood versus your interpretive view? Furthermore Jesus made it abundantly clear in His own words and in the Revelation to John that said, Revelation 21:8 "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and *****mongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Rodger, there is a place for unrepentant rebellious souls to reside. Now, this is a place where death or ceasing to exist would be welcomed for this "Lake of Fire" is a place of great torment and pain. True Godfearing saints, disciples of Christ and believers will be spared this second death for Jesus promised, "they shall not taste the second death." These will be those who are "caught up in the air" with Christ which is commonly referred to as the rapture but I normally use the literal application of "first resurrection." The second resurrection does not occur until the end of the New Millennium after the Gog-Magog War (not to be confused with (Armageddon) when all the dead shall be resurrected unto life and appear before the great throne of judgment where the Lamb of God will make His final determination of the rest of humanity's fate.

Clearly, by Christ's own words on this forth coming judgment, there will be goats on one side and sheep on the other side of His throne. All will likely be confessing Christ as Lord because they all will see Him in all His Glory shining brighter than the sun once did. But does He say." Come one-come all and enter into my rest for you are all saved," or does He say to some, "Depart from me you wicked one for I never knew you!"

You see Rodger, though you boast of practicing a literal view of scripture, your displayed comments give way to an interpretive view and there is much you neglect in presenting your argument. You cannot choose the more convenient scriptures and cast away the uncomfortable ones merely because you feel guilt ridden by a God who in all His righteousness will avenge His obedient, loving and begotten children.

There is a price to pay my friend and again I remind you that "conviction" is one of three attributes that accompany the indwelling Spirit of God. Do not confuse strong and humbling conviction with feelings of guilt that bring on bouts of serious depression. There is a difference and my GOD is a GOD of life and death. As you well know, we by the grace of God will overcome the last enmity, death, eventually but only if we stay in good keeping as His obedient children being careful not to deny the more critical aspects of His righteous judgments.

To your credit, I am in total agreement with this one statement you made, "This increase in pride is the result of having been subjected to such an abundance of human-independence teaching in an atmosphere in which it is continuously encouraged and reinforced, verified and justified with much approbation and exaltation." This statement is profoundly true as I hold the same understanding and view of man's pride.

On that note, I caution you once again to carefully consider the high esteem you hold Corham's work in. Your praise of certain men leads down different paths than the bloody one Christ left for us to follow. Have your own mind and do not be so quick to adopt what is none other than human wisdom and interpretations made by men. The bloody cross of Christ does save us Rodger but only if we follow to it and embrace it unto our own Spirit led - selfless sacrifices. By His example alone and our following closely to it are we saved or made useful to continue the works that Jesus authored.

I've asked you not to use my forum as a podium to market human heresies or teach others who fellowship with me the errant doctrines of others. I am more than willing however to continue dialoguing with you as long as you allow the unadulterated Word of God to judge differences between us. Only then will we be able to judge with a righteous judgment. God loves judgment and His has been made perfect!

With all sincerity and love for the truth and our scattered brethren abroad,


Nicholas A. Stivers, a humbled God fearing man, disciple,

In response to the scriptures you quoted see
BIBLE THREATENINGS EXPLAINED – John Wesley Hanson
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/BibleThreateningsExplained.html

Also type any word or phrase from your arguments into the search engine at the top of the front page at http://www.tentmaker.org

For expample type in lake of fire, second death, brimstone, sheep and goats, hell, eternal, forever, or any word or phrase you think teaches endless hell.