From: Khalid Amayreh
To: Nicholas A Stivers
Subject: I accept your reproof
Date: Jan 13, 2006 1:37 AM

Dear Sir: Thank you for your civilized tone.

I understand every word in your message. And I agree with you about the relationship between religion and civil liberties and liberalism.

I noticed that you are viewing both Muhammed and Jesus symmetrically. This is wrong because Muhammed doesn't occupy the same place in Islam Jesus does in Christiantiy.

Jesus is "GOD" or "SON OF GOD" in Christianity, whereas Muhammed is a mer messenger.

We don't worship Muhammed who preached monotheism and said "I am only the son of a woman who used to eat rotten bread."

And I really don't believe there is any contradiction between Jesus and Muhammed. As far as we are concerned, they both came up with the same message.

We don't believe in Trinity and that God has a son. God is One, Absolute, He neither begets nor is He begotton. And We don't believe in the "original sin" concept.

And we don't believe that Jesus died because of the Crucifixtion.

Even the Bible itself says "He gave up the ghost." It means he died voluntarily, it means that God took him to Him.

Besides, Jesus never claimed to be God. This is why people Like Paul and Barnabas argued heatedly over this central issue...with the latter arguing that Jesus was merely a messenger of God, while the former argued that Jesus was son of God..or God on earth.

In any case, God is the ultimate arbiter and ultimate Judge. He will judge between us on the Day of Judgement.

But in this world, We must act as decent human beings, respect each other and cooperate for the common goodness of humanity.

It would be a huge stupidity to turn a billion and a half Muslims and a billion and a half Christians against each others.

May God bless you and us.

Khalid

January 18, 2006

Dear Mr. Khalid Amayreh,

I have some interesting insights which raise questions regarding the applied contexts between Jesus and Mohammad. You are correct in saying that I am viewing Jesus and Mohammad symetrically. There is a reason for that and perhaps you could answer some of my questions in this view.

The first is that the Qur'an is credited to Mohammad as its author yet the whole of the Bible is credited to approximately 40 some authors. Both books claim divine truth but the Qur'an has within its pages the insights of one man who claimed to be a messenger of God and the Bible's various authors declare themselves to be witnesses. Jesus never wrote a single page that we are aware of but Mohammad wrote much. The Old Testament books are filled with ancient prophesy, much that has already come to pass thereby lending itself to credibility but the Qur'an has virtually no prophetic value that can be substantiated with the passing of time. Now my first question is how can Mohammad be viewed as a prophet when in fact he never prophesied?

The next odd comparison is that in both our cultures, Christians worship God the Father and Jesus, His begotten and Muslims worship Allah and Mohammad, his messenger. If Mohammad doesn't occupy the same place in Islam as Jesus does in Christianity, why then is Mohammad worshipped by Muslims like as in the same fashion as Jesus is or should be worshipped by Christians? In this context, I say "worship" because Muslims are resolved to follow the dictate and direction that Mohammad provided and patterned. The real comparison that should be made here is that Jesus expected, even commanded His followers to do the same, to worship Him in Spirit and truth, obey the Father by His (Jesus) example of "sonship." Jesus also made it real clear that there was no way to the Father but through Him alone. How is it that Muslims can believe Jesus is with the Father God but was never crucified as history has recorded in multiple accounts? Even Josephus, the Jewish historian substantiated the story of Jesus without partial favor thereby proving that Jesus was crucified on the stake (cross). How is it that you can say both Jesus and Mohammad came up with the same message when there are such stark contrasts between the Islamic application and interpretation of truth written in the Qur'an to the fundamental and apostolic application and interpretation of truth found in scripture?

I study both and see more contrasts and contradiction than I do symmetry and agreement between the two books. No where in the New Testament is war ever declared against "infedels" but wars are prophesied in the same breath that Christians are exhorted to repent, refrain from and keep oneself unstained by the dark powers and prinicipalities of the earth. Jesus patterned for mankind a way of genuine redemption recognizing that there was no way for man to redeem himself absent of the selfless love and sacrifice patterned by Christ. How is it that Muslims do not believe themselves to need redemption yet are quick to point out that infedels must convert to Islam or be destroyed? The many verses in Qur'anic text indicate that if a believing Muslim should apply himself obediently in the direction that I do in regards to my own biblical faith and application then we are indeed two opposing men of faith and application. How can water and oil be mixed? Do not the two separate naturally? Jesus never harmed one person and neither did He promote involvement with the building and participation or interference of human governments. He was completely separate from what the Devil had offered because the Kingdom over which Jesus resides as King Eternal is a Spiritual Kingdom and not one of an earthly realm.

Con't Part II

Now if you are a peaceful Muslim, then you must be as opposed to all the hatred and bloodshed as I am because you indicate respect being important between us. How is it that Muslims can be obedient and faithful to their beloved Qur'an if they deny the direction it provides to exterminate all who don't convert to Islam? You see, understanding the Qur'anic text as I do, it would be impossible for a truly devout Muslim to be at peace with a truly devout follower of Christ because the Muslim intends to kill me (a disciple of Christ) as the Jews also did with Jesus and His followers. You see my friend, the story of enmity between men has not changed but still remains the same. Men are divided at every turn and in every religious context because the faithful are called to be just that... FAITHFUL. You cannot be faithful if you start denying aspects of your beloved Qur'anic direction in order to make peace with Christ and His followers. You must either repent from your Islamic beliefs and recieve redemption through Christ following His peaceful and selfless pattern or be condemned to a death of eternal torment. I cannot accept the racial and cultural hatreds exhibited in the Qur'anic text because I see that what Christ offered, He offered for all humanity without there being any religious, racial or cultural bias. If you attempted to keep or believe only part of what the Qur'an prescribes then you will likely be labeled as weak, mediocre and even hypocrite among your peers in Islam. If I followed the same pattern as so many "so-called" Christians have done, whether they be Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Lutheren, Four-Square, etc. then I too would be weak, mediocre and labeled a hypocrite by GOD. I cannot be as they are no more than you can be as Muslims are if you are attempting to be faithful to God's unblemished example of righteousness. The only unblemished example either of us have is not our respective religious orders or temples of worship or factions of religious types but.... the only example we have that is reliable in all righteousness is the pattern of Jesus - as He was in human flesh. There truly is no better example to follow and that is why His example is considered by many to be blameless.

He died for your sake as much as He died for my sake. But here's the trouble between us... the nature of fundamentalism is a curse or blessing. I have tested most all of Christ's teachings in my life and found them to be unchangable and absolutely true. This has led me away from the divisive religious virtues of mere men and unto a more pleasing example of obedience to the sonship of God. The practicioners of contemporary Christianity have become as much an offense to God our Father as the Islamic extremists are to Abraham. Both John the Baptist and Jesus cited this very paradox with the Jews claiming to have Abraham as their father. The same paradox exists with the Islamic faith as it did with the Jewish sects of Jesus' time.

It was recorded of John the Baptist; Matthew 3:7-10 "But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Bring forth therefore fruit worthy of repentance: and think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. And even now the axe lieth at the root of the trees: every tree therefore that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire."

To the Jews who believed upon Jesus they too heard of the relationship of identity to Abraham. John 8:31-47 Jesus therefore said to those Jews that had believed him, "If ye abide in my word, then are ye truly my disciples; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." They answered unto him, We are Abraham's seed, and have never yet been in bondage to any man: how sayest thou, Ye shall be made free? Jesus answered them, "Verily, verily, I say unto you, Every one that committeth sin is the bondservant of sin. And the bondservant abideth not in the house for ever: the son abideth for ever. If therefore the Son shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed. I know that ye are Abraham's seed: yet ye seek to kill me, because my word hath not free course in you. I speak the things which I have seen with my Father: and ye also do the things which ye heard from your father." They answered and said unto him, Our father is Abraham. Jesus saith unto them, "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I heard from God: this did not Abraham. Ye do the works of your father." They said unto him, We were not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. Jesus said unto them, "If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me.
See Pt 3

Jesus said unto them, "If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I came forth and am come from God; for neither have I come of myself, but he sent me. Why do ye not understand my speech? Even because ye cannot hear my word. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof. But because I say the truth, ye believe me not. Which of you convicteth me of sin? If I say truth, why do ye not believe me? He that is of God heareth the words of God: for this cause ye hear them not, because ye are not of God."
This same paradox that existed with the Jews also exists with Islam who regard themselves as from Abraham's seed. The above also clearly establishes that Jesus came as an example to all setting humanity free from the bondage to selfish concerns and sins. If you truly desire life eternal and to be in God's Kingdom forever, then you must apply yourself to Christ's example and no other. I fear for you that denying these simple and fundamental truths regarding Jesus will eventually get you cast out into that place of eternal torment. Jesus said very specifically regarding the "sons of the Kingdom," Matthew 8:10-12 "When Jesus heard it, he marveled, and said to them that followed, Verily I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel. And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Now given the above references and comparisons I have made, why would you deny so great an offering considering that the Islamic goal is not for for the cause of selfless love and human compassion but an Islamic statehood of religious dictatorship? The aim of Islam is to establish a state religion, which means Islam needs a religious state. Only when Islam becomes a state, is Islam fully developed. This is the ultimate comparison I made in one of my exhortations with respect to the fruit born of Mohammad's visitation. Islam is earthly and very human separate from the spiritual significance of the works of Christ and His obedience to God the Father. I don't see much difference between what Islam aspires to do with what the Romans did with Catholicism. Catholicism was in the beginning nothing more than a leagalized form of Christianity that could be incorporated into the inner-workings of man's governing agenda. And look at what they did when they married church and state together! The crusades were a debauchery of Christ-like faith and thousands upon thousands of Jews, Muslims and Christians (not excluding common folk) were needlessly murdered for the highly prized jewel called Jerusalem. Nothing but hatred precipitated in the formation of a legalized religious state. Now I can tell you with a great deal of confidence that the same will result and has already come to bear with respect to the Islamic goal of a religious state. Do you really think that there will ever be peace between us as long as man continues to push his sordid religious virtue upon one another? You may be suprised to hear me confess that democracy is as much an affront to true Christianity as it is to Islam.

Con't Pt IV

What is more important to you Khalid, the here and now or the hereafter? Do you acknowledge that you are not without sin in your life? Do you acknowledge that there is a need for redemption in your life? How about peace Khalid? Don't you desire peace in this life more than anything else? Doesn't Jesus pattern for us "peaceful resolve" so that we may acknowledge the same God by acknowleding His "begotten" Son of righteousness? What harm is there in leaving behind divisive religious precept for something of greater value... that being the eternal and unchangable truth? Have you ever heard a Christian witness to you in the way that I have towards you? Can you see that I am no friend of religion but that I am a God-fearing man of faith? Do you feel threatened by me or can you sense the great love and compassion I have for humanity? Does my application of faith seem more reasonable to you than the contemporary examples of hypocrisy present throughout the mainstream churches? Won't you consider more carefully what I have presented to you in truthful context and reconsider your need for accepting Jesus as your Lord and Messiah? I look forward to hearing back from you as I think I gave you much to consider. Please consider carefully when I confess to you that I am but a mere messenger and seek no man to follow me but am commanded by my Lord to point all men in the way of Christ crucified. You can understand the value of selfless living and selfless sacrifice thereby bearing witness of true righteousness can't you? Since we are all going to taste the first death, wouldn't it be a greater thing that when we die, we die with honor having our hands free from spilled blood? Is your conscience not convicted by the things which I have presented to you? What say ye oh son of man?

Therefore, in Christ, we are righteous but are not yet "perfected." We are in the process of being "perfected" but have not yet fully attained perfection. Romans 6:15-18 "What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness." While we are yet babes, we press on towards maturity that we may obtain the salvation which awaits us who are protected by the power of God through our faith. This is evidenced by our obedience to follow the selfless pattern of Christ Jesus. There is no way to the Father but through Him alone. - excerpt from Nicholas Scrolls Volume III No. 1 by Nicholas A. Stivers

Scribed in love and with firm commitment to Christ and all the household of God,
Your faithful brother and servant to Christ Jesus our Lord,

Nicholas A. Stivers

From: Khalid Amayreh
To: Nicholas A Stivers
Subject: Accepting your challenge...
Date: Jan 18, 2006 11:31 PM

Listen, this is subject is too paramount to be dealt with lightly.

Muhammed is not the Author of the Quran. Muhammed was illiterate. A person who lived in 6th century Arabia couldn't write the inimitable Quran.

Muhammed was only a messenger. We don't worship him, we worship the God of Abraham and Moses and Jesus.

The Quran, unlike the Bible, is immutable. Muslims have one Quran, Christians have many bibles.

How do you know that the Quran has no prophetic value? have you studied it? You should humble yourself at least for the sake of rectitude and simple honesty.

I don't want to compare between Muhammed and Jesus. I love Jesus as much as I love Muhammed. They are both God's messengers. They are both Prophets.

Don't you beleive that Jesus is also a Prophet?

It is sad that you are not telling the truth by claiming that Muslims worship Muhammed.

Muslims worship Allah (Arabic for God). Christians in the Arab world also pray to Allah, not to God, come and see for yourself instead of allowing yourself to be brainwashed by these mendaciosu evangelists who lie in God's name and who behave in a very unchristian manner, also in God's name. (Thou shall not lie).

Do you know what is God's name in Semitic languages? Do you know that the Hebrew bible used the word Allah for God? Do you know that Jesus called on Allah for help?

(Ella (a dverivative of Allah) lama sabachtani?..You must try to be honest...go to some academics in your area, ask them if Allah is a different God from that worshiped by Abraham?

Yes, we don't believe that God has sons and daughters and family. We believe that his One. That is all.

We don't worship moons and suns etc. That is evangelical disinformation.

Jesus never ever claimed to be God. Of course he was the way to God, just as Moses was the way to God. Jesus was a Prophet, and prophets communicate God's message of monotheisim and justice and love and righteousness to mankind.

Jesus is not responsible for all these problems and doctrinal contradictions in Christianity. Jesus never taught trinity for example. Jesus never taught papacy. Jesus told the Samirtan woman "My God and Your God is one" He said "I do nothing of myself" He said "My father is greater than me." So, Jesus was created by God, God doesn't create another God.

This means that much of what we see in Christianity today is man-made, not God-made.

Maybe you should study the early formation of Christiantiy.., e.g. the confrontation between Sain Barnabas and Saint Paul...and how the former refused to believe that Jesus was son of God, etc.

In the bible there are alot of wars, massacres, genocide, and hate. It is in the old testament. Isn't it? And you believe the old testament is the word of God? don't you? So how could God change his mind in a few hundred years?

Indeed, Jerry Falwell said if God okayed the killings of so many children and women in the Old Testament, Ariel Sharon should be able to slaughter women and children in the West Bank and Gaza...!!

The fact that Muhammed fought the idol-worshipers doesn't contradict biblical ethics. Moses fought and killed as well. Does this mean that he was bad?

Of course I am a peaceful Muslim, and of course I am against all hatred and war. But I am aslo for justice and freedom. There is no contradiction, because as the Prophet Issiah said "Peace can only be the fruit of Justice."

May God bless you.