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Like I said before - Here's what's going to happen now

Based on my experience of posting on many hundreds of forums, here's what's going to happen now.

The people who want to keep believing that the Bible proves that everyone deserves to suffer forever in hell just because they were born into this world, or because they don’t make the “right” choice before it’s “too late,” or that God created beings with a will so strong that they can irreversibly choose themselves into a state of eternal torment - these people will keep believing it because they want to.

But people who want to believe that the Bible nowhere supports such a concept of God will examine the evidence contained in HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE at http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html
and they will learn that the Bible actually teaches universal salvation instead, not even annihilation.

Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of http://www.tentmaker.org and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for thousands of pages.

The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/
and the many entries at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm
show just how much this information is helping people.

This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown, and it gives me great joy to keep learning every day that it is helping more and more other people too!!

Re: Like I said before - Here's what's going to happen now

We would all have nervous breakdowns if we thought it was up to our works or "good behavior " to earn our salvation, but Jesus payed the price, so we don't have to recreate the truth (even if backed by Greek scholars, which really is the same as "man's wisdom) to "make sure" we're going there. I challenge you to ask the Lord what your nervous breakdown was all about. What were your fears, if you had truly believed that He paid the price, and if you had truly put your trust in Him alone to bring to you salvation. I think there may be something else going on here, (inside of you) which prevented you from embracing His finished work on behalf of your sins. We all have things in us (filters, blockages, fears, etc.) which interfer with receiving all He has for us-that's where being purified on the inside of us comes in. As we allow (invite) Him to search our inmost parts and subject ourselves to His scrutiny, He is faithful to reveal our most vile passions and evil ways. When He brings them into the light, we can then carry them to Him for cleansing and renewing our inward man. This process is so that He can conform us to His image-then and only then will we bring Him glory, because we know that within us dwells nothing good, and that our heart is deceitfully wicked. He wants to make us His vessels that are pure(cleansed from ourselves) so that He (His light and likeness) can flow through us. Rodger, my brother, I exhort you to seek Your Lord about this-Ask Him to search you to see what has caused these fears you had and sought relief for. I understand desiring relief from negative feelings. I myself struggle from many fears, and I have gone about finding my own relief before instead of turning to the Lord to go through them with me. This is just a stab in the dark, but is it possible that you have an earthly father-wound? This wound, I am finding out, produces such a gapping hole in our soul that only the Love of our Father God can mend it. Will you open your soul up to the gentle, search light of His Spirit? It is there we find alot of beliefs originate either from our wounds caused by our own sins or from the sins of others.

response to Pattie from Rodger Tutt

Patti, regarding your concern for my personal salvation.
Because of what Christ accomplished for me by His death and resurrection, through the power in the blood of His cross, I am confident that He is going to present me faultless to our Father with exceeding great joy!
My personal salvation is not the issue.

My guest book and email file folders are full of testimonies by people who suffered like I did by not being able to love an endless-hell god. So is the guest book of the tentmaker site. We all were very thankful to discover the evidence that the Bible does not support such a concept of God.

I think that the people who want to keep believing that the Bible proves that everyone deserves to suffer forever in hell just because they were born into this world, or because they don’t make the “right” choice before it’s “too late,” or that God created beings with a will so strong that they can irreversibly choose themselves into a state of eternal torment - these people will keep believing it because they want to.

But people who want to believe that the Bible nowhere supports such a concept of God will examine the evidence contained in HIS ACHIEVEMENT ARE WE at http://concordant.org/expohtml/HisAchievement/index.html

And also here
Information, and frequently asked questions in support of a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaching universal salvation,

http://www.tentmaker.org/bloglinks.htm

http://www.tentmaker.org/sitemap.html

http://www.christian-universalism.com/links.html

copy and paste into address bar if necessary

and they will learn that the Bible actually teaches universal salvation instead, not even annihilation.

Or, they will go to the search engine at the top of http://www.tentmaker.org and will type in a key word or phrase from any argument or scripture passage. Ten articles will come up refuting the claim that the Bible teaches eternal torment. Then they may click to the next page and ten more articles will come up, and so on and so on for many pages.

The many entries in my guestbook that is accessed towards the bottom of my front page

at http://greater-emmanuel.org/Hope4You/

and the many entries at http://www.tentmaker.org/visitorcomments.htm
show just how much this information is helping people.

This was the information that enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown (1966-68), and it gives me great joy to keep learning every day that it is helping more and more other people too!! I’m 68
I am also going to guide you to the testimony of a man whose experience was almost identical to mine. Even the thought processes that took him into, through, and out of his breakdown are the same as mine. Only he is much more eloquent in telling his story than I am in telling mine. His name is Charles Slagle.
http://www.tentmaker.org/books/Absolute-Assurance-in-Jesus-Christ.html

Re: response to Pattie from Rodger Tutt

It's really quite frightening to me that different people who are in the Lord can get diametrically oppossed messages on such an important topic. I know the Lord is of one heart and mind, so it must be us, His people, whose understanding is off. Of course,I know you agree, and believe that the ones who are off, are the ones who don't see it like you do. I realize you believe that you've found something that calms your nerves and brings you joy. Isn't there a little part of you that wonders if you have been suseptible to this belief because it satisfies your carnal desires, that of creating God in your own image perhaps? I don't profess to understanding God inside and out. I know as He reveals Himself to me in a personal relationship, as He speaks to me spirit to spirit. The Word is true, but only as the Spirit of Truth, His Holy Spirit, brings true revelation on the Word can we truly know. Please ask the Lord that, if you are deceived, that He show you. I don't necessarily "want" to believe what you said I do (and I wouldn't even put it that way) I just accept the way the Lord wants to do it, despite my own understanding which we are not supposed to rely on, anyway. He has purposes which we don't understand, but perhaps someday will. Ours is a faith walk. We can't always know everything; we can't always "see." He is the All-knowing. I am learning to trust Him more and more in that.
One more thing: I really think it is rather inappropriate to consume Nicholas Stiver's forum with this topic. I understand your passion for, what you believe, is revelatory and your desire to "save" others from their false beliefs, but maybe you could have a blog or website of your own. You've said what you need to say. Can't you let it rest now?
Well, Rodger, my prayer is that all delusions and deceptions of the enemy fall by the wayside by the Light that dispels the darkness. I know that is your prayer too. May all come to the knowledge of the truth, so that the Lord's Body can be as One as He and the Father are One. I agree in prayer with Jesus' prayer before He left this earth. Amen.

Patti, so long as I keep receiving testimonies from people who are suffering

like I did during my twelve year nervous breakdown, I have no desire to "let it rest."

We humans do share one thing in common with robots and that is causality. Everything we do, and every choice we make is the product of a cause. It is absolutely impossible to choose what we do not prefer. The fact that we choose it demonstrates that we prefer it, even though there may be influences that are almost just as strong.

We had a professor in Bible school that frequently said, "Knowledge is not knowing everything. Knowledge is knowing where you can find what you need to know when you need to know it."

I am actively posting on many forums every day because I am trying to reach as many people as possible with the information that enabled me, and many other people, to recover from a nervous breakdown.

Because I am trying to reach as many people as possible I don't take the time to answer individual questions about the Bible but instead direct people to where they can find the answer.

Consequently I would like to say to any member of this forum who is inclined to be influenced by the writings of teachers of eternal suffering, and who is at the same time suffering from their inability to successfully cope with the idea that the Bible teaches eternal suffering for anyone; I would just like them to know this. I'm 68, and I have spent most of my life studying both sides of this argument. I have probably heard every argument that has ever been conceived to support the idea that the Bible teaches eternal suffering for anyone. All of them have been refuted many times over using biblical evidence in many books, on hundreds of recorded tapes, and on the internet.

Two of the best sources on the internet are TENTMAKER and THE OUTCOME OF INFINITE GRACE by Dr Loyal Hurley.

Just type a key word or phrase from any argument or passage of scripture into the search engine at the top of TENTMAKER'S front page and ten articles will appear that scripturally refute the eternal hell doctrine. Then click to the next page and ten more articles will appear, and so on and so on for many pages.
You can Google it up. TENTMAKER is always number one on Google’s tentmaker list.

Dr. Hurley's writing also scripturally covers every aspect of the argument. You can also Google it up by title.

IMHO to not allow links on forums that prove that the administrator and the managers are wrong about their beliefs just convinces me that they are afraid to examine the evidence because their denominational teachers have them under their control by fear. They simply don’t know any better.

I post on forums to help the members and the surfers to know that there is irrefutable proof that God is not like the fundamentalist Christians say that a correctly (literally, not interpretively) translated Bible teaches He is. But I realize that if it's not the strongest influence in your life to search it out for yourself you simply will not do it. I have found that many people do not want punishment to be limited in duration. I wish I knew how to change that attitude but I don't.

Know this everyone: Just because you don't know an answer to an argument doesn't mean there isn't one.

It takes a long time to unlearn all of the arguments that eternal-hell denominations teach in support of endless suffering in hell. But I am a living testimony that it can be done.

Through the power in the blood of Christ's cross He is going to eventually save everyone.
Believe it. Rejoice in it because it’s true.
From Rodger Tutt in Toronto, Canada
"That God may be All in all" 1Cor.15:28