Enigma forum

David Parry

Mar 11, 08 - 3:06 PM

What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

Like many people, I am in the market for a titanium road bike, but I'm bewildered by the seemingly identical offereings of companies such as Van Nicholas, Sunday, Burls and Enigma.

To add to the confusion, Planet-X are just about to start selling Lynksey titanium bikes with much better looking welds (see link below) and extremely attractive prices.

http://www.planet-x-bikes.com/road/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=263

To quote from the BikeRadar forum...

"Complete bikes should be around 1500-1700 with ultegra depending on exact specs , though we might be able to put togethor a dura ace drivetrain with Gossamere compact cranks, and tektro brakes for same price." See link below.

http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12561287&start=15&sid=50e31dc88ff8e15dbadc1c3d5f3342a3

In order to help me and other potential customers make an informed decision, what qualities do Enigma bikes have that would pursuade me to buy into the Enigma brand rather than one of the increasing number of alternative manufacturers of titanium bikes ?

Brian Nicholson

Mar 12th, 2008 - 6:28 AM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

Hi,

Speaking from experience I can aony advise what a first class service Enigma staff (Jim and Mark)both offer in relation to cost,frame sizing and of course the all important customer service given.

I bought a frame, fork and headset from them and I am delighted with it and the cost was very good in relation to other Ti manufacturers.

If you take my viewpoint you will not be disappointed

Happy days ahead

Jim

Mar 12th, 2008 - 8:33 AM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

Hello David,

Thank you for a very good forum post. I am very busy right at this moment and don't have the time to give you a detailed response. However when I have a moment in the next day or so I will post a reply.

Thanks Brian for your comments.

Jim

Arran

Mar 12th, 2008 - 11:59 AM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

David,

I have just purchased a new Effusion frame after owning an Omega Cyclone for five years. In my experience this frame performs so exceptionally well because its frame designer (Mark) who has been specifically working with titanium for over 10 years and his experience for over twenty years with other materials.

There are significant differences in the way that different titanium frames feel and perform and whilst some of them may look similar, it is only when you test ride an Enigma that you understand how special they are.

I understand that titanium welds can be over-welding to give a smarter finish, however this does also add to the weight of the frame.

I have just taken my bike out again after making some minor adjustment to the handlebar hight and just I cannot believe how good it is and how much Mark has developed the design of his frames.

If you don't believe me, have a look at the magazine reviews. The Effusion has been described as “an Aston Martin among Caterham Sevens”.

David Parry

Mar 12th, 2008 - 3:36 PM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

Hi Arran,

Thanks very much for your reply.

I'm sure that your Effusion is a lovely bike, but then it should be for £3,050.00.

I'm very taken by the Enigmas and would dearly love one and I've read some very favourable reviews, but I just wondered what justified the much higher prices, especially as you will very soon be able to get a Planet-X / Linsey with Dura Ace for just £1500 - £1700.

Arran

Mar 13th, 2008 - 2:48 AM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

David,

The nearest comparison to the frame that you are quoting is the Eclipse, which you can get nicely equipped for £1600, however if you seriously in the market for a new titanium bike, I suspect that Jim has some other frames which could interest you in his Winter Sale.

Jim

Mar 13th, 2008 - 9:41 AM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

David,

Apart from the bikes themselves of course I would like to think that the passion we have for what we do might help you make your decision and choose an Enigma. This together with more than 50 years of experience of all aspects of cycling, the cycle business, frame building and design with a committment to customer service all help to make us a little different from the rest.

As far as the bikes are concerned; what makes our bikes special is the ride quality. Everyone seems to get terribly hung-up about welding and whilst i believe our weld quality stands comparison with the very best this is just a small part of what makes a bike frame what it is. Design, materials and overall construction all contribute to make the bike frame perform in the right way. It is the experience and expertise that we have in this area that makes us stand out from the crowd. We truly believe that the design and ride of our bikes is the best and we invite any comparison.

It is interesting that several of our competitors have now tried to copy our designs. I suppose immitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

Fit; you can have the best bike in the world but if it doesn't fit properly and is not suitable for purpose then it may as well be made of wood! Our mission is always to ensure that our bikes are not only perfectly suited to the needs of the customer, they also fit properly.

It is the design, fit and the ride quality that is everything, not the welding.

Price; if you want cheap then you are likely to buy a Chinese frame and that's OK. You can buy a Chinese made titanium frame direct from the manufacturer yourself for around £400.00 if you wish, it's no secret. There is nothing wrong with them and they are as cheap as chips but in our opinion you get what you pay for.

On the other hand people always assume that if a ti frame is expenive and made in the US it must be better. Why??? If US made frames of whatever material were so much better then why do the major US bike companies not have all their frames made in the USA? As far as I'm aware the higher end models from these manufacturers come from the Far East. Why? Well because the Taiwanese in particular have invested in high technology manufacturing and training and they produce some of the worlds finest bicycle frames. Taiwan manufacture is no longer cheap. I'm confident that a certain world famous Italian racing bike company would also concur.

The price of our frames reflects the quality of the product irrespective of the country of manufacturer and they represent real value for money. We think our prices compare very favourably with Brand X or anyone else.

Sorry to go on. Ultimately you pays yer money.....

I hope this helps and whichever brand you choose good luck!

Jim

Big Ron

Mar 13th, 2008 - 5:10 PM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

Q: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

A: Word of mouth.

Two good press reviews (CyclingPlus and Cycling Weekly) and happy owner forum postings..... that speaks volumes.
I bought my Effusion and Electron forks last year based on web photos and a review in CyclingPlus..... big gamble.
I'm happy and proud to say that one year on I'm well chuffed with my frame and forks.
Obviously I can't comment on the other Ti frames around as the only other Ti frame that I own/ridden is a 1994 Dyna-Tech 900FS, but if you want quality and looks at mid range prices then look no further.

PS..... Lance Armstrong made Trek famous, before him WTF were they????

mdg1157

Mar 15th, 2008 - 2:39 PM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

Although not an owner of an enigma, I am the proud owner of a Omega Enigma, (designed by Mark)which seems to be of a similar design to the espirit(although it was more expensive)
Don't know what I am trying to say actually!!!!just love my bike!

David Parry

Mar 16th, 2008 - 3:56 AM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

Thank you to everyone that has replied to my question, which has definitely whetted my appetite.

Could you please tell me if there are any Enigma dealers within the Midlands area (Nottingham, Derby, Leicester, Northampton etc) ?

Looking on your website, the dealers all seem to be in the far south, far north or far west, and none at all in the centre of the country.

Maybe you will be having another open day to serve those people in the midlands that would like the chance to see the Enigmas for themselves.

Jim

Mar 16th, 2008 - 6:04 AM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

Hi David,

Fred Williams Cycles of Wolverhampton have just become our dealer for the Midlands area so give them a call. Otherwise please feel free to call us if you would any further information and we will be pleased to help.

Jim

Tony

Mar 19th, 2008 - 1:50 PM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

Sorry for the late response. I bought my Esprit last month after two or three years of agonising what would replace my 1990's steel frame. I looked at carbon frames, and all the alternative Ti manufacturers. In a lot of ways it's a bit like buying the proverbial 'pig in a poke' - until you ride YOUR bike you don't know if it's a good buy of not.

So why did I choose Titanium? Because I wanted a frame that would last, that would retain it's good looks, that would be robust enough for occasional touring with luggage - and that would not be a 'fashion fad'.

Why did I choose Enigma? Because of the reputation of both Jim and Mark. Because of the rave reviews both in the press and on this forum. Because of the production quality, finish and geometry. Because I liked the team and trusted the backup support.

Am I satisfied? You bet I am

I always take marketing claims with a pinch of salt, but by taking advantage of an Open Day I was able to view the frames and take a ride on one. Further rides on my own (Esprit) frame have confirmed the original experience. The frame is stiff and responsive, yet extremely comfortable - and looks great!

You may have noticed I have not yet mentioned price. I could have bought cheaper and been happy - or disappointed. I could have paid over the odds, for a big name and been happy - or disappointed. I paid for a frame which I knew was going to be suitable in both performance and support (if I ever need it) - price is immaterial if you get the right product. Price can be very expensive if you don't.

If you can, meet Jim and Mark, and take a test ride. You won't be disappointed.

Ian

Mar 31st, 2008 - 1:58 AM

Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ?

I just had a look at the planet x photos. Are you joking

That bike is boring!! I don't think there is any comparison in looks without considering the ride qualities.
The Americans have no heritage in frame building compared to the European designers. And as for Lynsky thats the family that made litespeed and we all know how many of them broke.

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Author	Comment
David Parry Mar 11, 08 - 3:06 PM	What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? Like many people, I am in the market for a titanium road bike, but I'm bewildered by the seemingly identical offereings of companies such as Van Nicholas, Sunday, Burls and Enigma. To add to the confusion, Planet-X are just about to start selling Lynksey titanium bikes with much better looking welds (see link below) and extremely attractive prices. http://www.planet-x-bikes.com/road/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=263 To quote from the BikeRadar forum... "Complete bikes should be around 1500-1700 with ultegra depending on exact specs , though we might be able to put togethor a dura ace drivetrain with Gossamere compact cranks, and tektro brakes for same price." See link below. http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12561287&start=15&sid=50e31dc88ff8e15dbadc1c3d5f3342a3 In order to help me and other potential customers make an informed decision, what qualities do Enigma bikes have that would pursuade me to buy into the Enigma brand rather than one of the increasing number of alternative manufacturers of titanium bikes ? Email: fresh_air_rider@hotmail.com
Brian Nicholson Mar 12th, 2008 - 6:28 AM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? Hi, Speaking from experience I can aony advise what a first class service Enigma staff (Jim and Mark)both offer in relation to cost,frame sizing and of course the all important customer service given. I bought a frame, fork and headset from them and I am delighted with it and the cost was very good in relation to other Ti manufacturers. If you take my viewpoint you will not be disappointed Happy days ahead Email: bn3@blueyonder.co.uk
Jim Mar 12th, 2008 - 8:33 AM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? Hello David, Thank you for a very good forum post. I am very busy right at this moment and don't have the time to give you a detailed response. However when I have a moment in the next day or so I will post a reply. Thanks Brian for your comments. Jim
Arran Mar 12th, 2008 - 11:59 AM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? David, I have just purchased a new Effusion frame after owning an Omega Cyclone for five years. In my experience this frame performs so exceptionally well because its frame designer (Mark) who has been specifically working with titanium for over 10 years and his experience for over twenty years with other materials. There are significant differences in the way that different titanium frames feel and perform and whilst some of them may look similar, it is only when you test ride an Enigma that you understand how special they are. I understand that titanium welds can be over-welding to give a smarter finish, however this does also add to the weight of the frame. I have just taken my bike out again after making some minor adjustment to the handlebar hight and just I cannot believe how good it is and how much Mark has developed the design of his frames. If you don't believe me, have a look at the magazine reviews. The Effusion has been described as “an Aston Martin among Caterham Sevens”. Email: arranls@btopenworld.com
David Parry Mar 12th, 2008 - 3:36 PM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? Hi Arran, Thanks very much for your reply. I'm sure that your Effusion is a lovely bike, but then it should be for £3,050.00. I'm very taken by the Enigmas and would dearly love one and I've read some very favourable reviews, but I just wondered what justified the much higher prices, especially as you will very soon be able to get a Planet-X / Linsey with Dura Ace for just £1500 - £1700. Email: fresh_air_rider@hotmail.com
Arran Mar 13th, 2008 - 2:48 AM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? David, The nearest comparison to the frame that you are quoting is the Eclipse, which you can get nicely equipped for £1600, however if you seriously in the market for a new titanium bike, I suspect that Jim has some other frames which could interest you in his Winter Sale.
Jim Mar 13th, 2008 - 9:41 AM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? David, Apart from the bikes themselves of course I would like to think that the passion we have for what we do might help you make your decision and choose an Enigma. This together with more than 50 years of experience of all aspects of cycling, the cycle business, frame building and design with a committment to customer service all help to make us a little different from the rest. As far as the bikes are concerned; what makes our bikes special is the ride quality. Everyone seems to get terribly hung-up about welding and whilst i believe our weld quality stands comparison with the very best this is just a small part of what makes a bike frame what it is. Design, materials and overall construction all contribute to make the bike frame perform in the right way. It is the experience and expertise that we have in this area that makes us stand out from the crowd. We truly believe that the design and ride of our bikes is the best and we invite any comparison. It is interesting that several of our competitors have now tried to copy our designs. I suppose immitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Fit; you can have the best bike in the world but if it doesn't fit properly and is not suitable for purpose then it may as well be made of wood! Our mission is always to ensure that our bikes are not only perfectly suited to the needs of the customer, they also fit properly. It is the design, fit and the ride quality that is everything, not the welding. Price; if you want cheap then you are likely to buy a Chinese frame and that's OK. You can buy a Chinese made titanium frame direct from the manufacturer yourself for around £400.00 if you wish, it's no secret. There is nothing wrong with them and they are as cheap as chips but in our opinion you get what you pay for. On the other hand people always assume that if a ti frame is expenive and made in the US it must be better. Why??? If US made frames of whatever material were so much better then why do the major US bike companies not have all their frames made in the USA? As far as I'm aware the higher end models from these manufacturers come from the Far East. Why? Well because the Taiwanese in particular have invested in high technology manufacturing and training and they produce some of the worlds finest bicycle frames. Taiwan manufacture is no longer cheap. I'm confident that a certain world famous Italian racing bike company would also concur. The price of our frames reflects the quality of the product irrespective of the country of manufacturer and they represent real value for money. We think our prices compare very favourably with Brand X or anyone else. Sorry to go on. Ultimately you pays yer money..... I hope this helps and whichever brand you choose good luck! Jim
Big Ron Mar 13th, 2008 - 5:10 PM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? Q: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? A: Word of mouth. Two good press reviews (CyclingPlus and Cycling Weekly) and happy owner forum postings..... that speaks volumes. I bought my Effusion and Electron forks last year based on web photos and a review in CyclingPlus..... big gamble. I'm happy and proud to say that one year on I'm well chuffed with my frame and forks. Obviously I can't comment on the other Ti frames around as the only other Ti frame that I own/ridden is a 1994 Dyna-Tech 900FS, but if you want quality and looks at mid range prices then look no further. PS..... Lance Armstrong made Trek famous, before him WTF were they???? Email: Big_Ron@tiscali.co.uk
mdg1157 Mar 15th, 2008 - 2:39 PM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? Although not an owner of an enigma, I am the proud owner of a Omega Enigma, (designed by Mark)which seems to be of a similar design to the espirit(although it was more expensive) Don't know what I am trying to say actually!!!!just love my bike! Email: mark.greenham@ntlworld.com
David Parry Mar 16th, 2008 - 3:56 AM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? Thank you to everyone that has replied to my question, which has definitely whetted my appetite. Could you please tell me if there are any Enigma dealers within the Midlands area (Nottingham, Derby, Leicester, Northampton etc) ? Looking on your website, the dealers all seem to be in the far south, far north or far west, and none at all in the centre of the country. Maybe you will be having another open day to serve those people in the midlands that would like the chance to see the Enigmas for themselves. Email: fresh_air_rider@hotmail.com
Jim Mar 16th, 2008 - 6:04 AM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? Hi David, Fred Williams Cycles of Wolverhampton have just become our dealer for the Midlands area so give them a call. Otherwise please feel free to call us if you would any further information and we will be pleased to help. Jim
Tony Mar 19th, 2008 - 1:50 PM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? Sorry for the late response. I bought my Esprit last month after two or three years of agonising what would replace my 1990's steel frame. I looked at carbon frames, and all the alternative Ti manufacturers. In a lot of ways it's a bit like buying the proverbial 'pig in a poke' - until you ride YOUR bike you don't know if it's a good buy of not. So why did I choose Titanium? Because I wanted a frame that would last, that would retain it's good looks, that would be robust enough for occasional touring with luggage - and that would not be a 'fashion fad'. Why did I choose Enigma? Because of the reputation of both Jim and Mark. Because of the rave reviews both in the press and on this forum. Because of the production quality, finish and geometry. Because I liked the team and trusted the backup support. Am I satisfied? You bet I am I always take marketing claims with a pinch of salt, but by taking advantage of an Open Day I was able to view the frames and take a ride on one. Further rides on my own (Esprit) frame have confirmed the original experience. The frame is stiff and responsive, yet extremely comfortable - and looks great! You may have noticed I have not yet mentioned price. I could have bought cheaper and been happy - or disappointed. I could have paid over the odds, for a big name and been happy - or disappointed. I paid for a frame which I knew was going to be suitable in both performance and support (if I ever need it) - price is immaterial if you get the right product. Price can be very expensive if you don't. If you can, meet Jim and Mark, and take a test ride. You won't be disappointed.
Ian Mar 31st, 2008 - 1:58 AM	Re: What makes Enigma stand out from the rest ? I just had a look at the planet x photos. Are you joking That bike is boring!! I don't think there is any comparison in looks without considering the ride qualities. The Americans have no heritage in frame building compared to the European designers. And as for Lynsky thats the family that made litespeed and we all know how many of them broke. Email: ian@220psi.com